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| RCBS 2000 Progressive vs Dillon 550? | Login/Join |
| <Powderman> |
You are correct in your observation about the Dillon charge bar. Be aware that the Dillon charge bar is infinitely adjustable. As far as the press body is concerned, both the RCBS and the Dillon are made from the same thing--cast iron. Also, I have yet to see any reloading company that will beat the customer service available at Dillon. Bottom line--get the Dillon. You will not be disappointed. By the way--if you REALLY want progressive capabilities, invest a little more, and get the Dillon XL 650, with the casefeeder. I did, and I'm happier than a pig in slop. ------------------ | ||
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| <ssleefl> |
I heard the charge bar for the 550 would not throw enough powder for large cased magnums. The largest I will handload is 300WM @72gr. And with your reply may I assume that you have used both presses and prefer the dillon ? | ||
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| <Powderman> |
Actually, no, I haven't tried the RCBS 2000--maybe I should. But, Dillon DOES make charge bars in four different sizes: small, for handgun loads; large for medium rifle loads (can be used to load magnum handgun), magnum (for large size rifle cases) and another one specifically for magnum rifle. By the way, I also load .300 Win Mag, but I don't run it through the progressive. I prefer to single-stage it, because for my rifle calibers I'm kinda anal retentive on charge accuracy. I do, however, load my plinking/blasting ammo for .308 and .30-06, and all my rounds in .223 on the Dillon. ------------------ | ||
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| <stans> |
I don't know about the RCBS2000, but I have the RCBS AmmoMaster. It is a good press and very reliable, but the AmmoMaster is big and has a very long throw. It can actually be configured to load .50 BMG!!!! I bought it when I had dilussions of loading really long cartridges. If I were to buy a press today with a maximum length of .308 Winchester or 30-06, I would probably go with a Dillon. If I were loading .223 Remington or shorter cases, definately go with Dillon. | ||
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| <BigBores> |
ss, I have owned a Dillon press for almost 20 years. It's the first model they came out with, the 450. I have been very pleased with it. It is very simillar to the 550, but no removable tool head, and the primer and charge bars are manually operated, seperately from the main handle. They do offer upgrades from mine to the 550, I just haven't done it. Too stubborn I guess. As to the charge bar, I use the standard bar for my .338 WM loading 70-73 grains of IMR 4350, depending on the bullet, etc., so it will "throw" enough powder for the 300 load you list. They also offer a "magnum" bar, which I also have, that will throw more powder, I believe in the 150gr range, could be off on that though, on the really big loads/calibers, I measure each one by hand on a scale. I can attest to the quality of the product, and the SUPER attitude of the company. They are truly one of the best I have ever delt with, bar none (and no I have no affiliation with them of any kind, even though I live in the same town they are located in). If you ever make it to Phoenix, look them up, and they will give you a complete factory tour, you can meet Mike Dillon, the president. He's all class and is ALWAYS availible to talk to customers. Not many company presidents will do that! | ||
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| <GoWyo!> |
Howdy SLEEFL, must be a story behind that handle, anyway I own a Pro 2000 and I am thrilled with it. The reason I went this route other than the fact that I like RCBS was that I had 8 or 9 shell plates for the Piggyback II and they interchange. I was initially leery of the APS priming system, but it's great! Smooth, reliable, safe, reloading the strips is quick and easy. I thought about going the Dillon route, but the caliber conversions seemed a little pricey to me...Debatable. I like the new powder throw system on the PRO 2000, very reliable, repeatable, and accurate(The old PB2 system blows IMHO as does the priming system). I've got one for sale if anyone is interested. To wrap it up, Although I've never owned a Dillon press, I don't think you could go wrong either way. Gary P.S. RCBS customer service is fantastic also. | ||
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| <Rust> |
Dillon has been building progressives for many, many years. They were the first to build a popular high quality press. I look at it like this, at the USPSA National Championships, generally over 98 percent of all competitors load on Dillon presses. These are people who shoot upwards of 80,000 rounds a year. Granted it's pistol ammon, but that is a lot of cycling. I have a Dillon 650. It is flawless. The charge bar works fine. Some High Power shooters do a little fine tuning of the charge bar for very coarse powders, but then not much really operates smoothly with IMR 4895, 4350 and even coarser powders. G. David Tubb uses a Dillon 550 and he seems to load satisfactory ammunition on one, good enough to win a few minor matches. RCBS makes good equipment, and I have a 'Chucker, but I'll stick with Dillon for a progressive press. Additionally, for realy high volume loading, the big case feed hopper is very nice. I can load 500 rounds an hour without hurrying. | ||
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| <David Wile> |
Hey folks, I have a lot of different brands of reloading equipment. I like RCBS, Lyman, Pacific, Hornady, MEC, and even a few Lee products. I mention this fact so I am not mistaken for one who is single minded in his brand of reloading equipment. Having said that, I would like to cast one vote for the Hornady Lock N' Load progressive press. I will not mention all its features or compare it to one of the others. I will simply say that it is high quality, does good work, and is quite reasonable in its cost. If one is considering a progressive metallic press, I would highly recommend that the person actually see all of the presses in action. That means going to the homes of reloaders and seeing how they use the presses. Then compare prices. After doing just that, I thought the Hornady progressive was the best buy for me. It may or may not be for you. Best wishes, | ||
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| <ssleefl> |
Hey guys, come on. I wasn't going to say this because I'm new here,but it needs to be said. My question was about the RCBS 2000 and I wanted to know if anyone had firsthand knowledge of it. My question was not what kind of press do you have and are you thrilled with it. I already have a dillon progressive for my pistol rounds and am very familiar with them, but alas... this was not my question. I'd also like to thank you all for trying to be helpful before I come off sounding like an ass (spot for jab at ssleefl to keep this thread going) Thanks double for GoWyo again. | ||
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| <David Wile> |
Steve, Sorry I wasted your time. Dave Wile | ||
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| one of us |
I have a pro 2000 press and must say that it has impressed me. I also own a dillon 550b press(which I am now selling). The RCBS powder measure is the biggest improvment in my opinion, but I also like the fact that I only have to buy a shell plate and tool head to change it over, not a complete conversion kit with powder measure(the powder measure stays in the press, only the dies are removed). The Dillon was not as consistent with powder charges, but I must say both companies have excellent customer service. | |||
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| <Abe Normal> |
Below is a response I posted back in 2001. You may want to do a search for the RCBS 2K. http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002623#000008 ---------------------------------->>> I've been loading on the RCBS 2K for a little over 2 years now and here's what I've come to like and dislike about the machine. 1. I like the 5 stations vs. the 4 of the 550b. 2. The powder measure system is a nicer/simpler design. 3. The APS priming system is the winner hands down! It's faster, easier, and user friendly, unlike the tube priming system. I can load up 500 primers into the strips in less than 10 minutes, with no bitching about stuck primers and it's a simple matter to see that all primers are facing the proper direction. 4. The APS primer strip loading tool as well as a goodly number of the plastic strips are included with the press. Where as the Dillon tube loading tool is an option and costs several hundred extra. 5. I like the spent primer "no spill catch cup" design, even though it's sort of a pain in the knee upon occasion. 6.Extra Die plates and the shell plates are less expensive than the Dillon. 7. I dislike the fact that your left hand is so very busy while the only tasks your right hand is able to perform is to pull the handle and index the shellplate. Where as the Dillon you can set the bullet with the right hand during the time the left is placing an empty casing in the shell plate (or is it the other way around?). 8. Both are very hardy machines built to last, both have the no BS lifetime warranty, both company's are extremely easy to deal with. Were my RCBS 2k to disappear tomorrow and I had to make the progressive press purchase again I think I'd still go with the RCBS if only because of the APS system, I like it that much more than the tube system that Dillon uses. Just My 2 cents worth, Abe | ||
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| one of us |
FWIW, I've used both and prefer the RCBS 2000. I greatly prefer the powder measure, 5th station, and the APS primer system. If you ever try them you won't go back to tubes for high volume loading... It's basically a giant Rockchucker made from the ground up as a progressive...imho. Regards, Matt. Btw, the RCBS lock out die is worth it's weight in gold. An excellent use for that extra station. | |||
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| one of us |
I wish I could say more about the Dillon, but BigBores covered it already. I have the 450 also, and IMHO it is indestructible. In the event you do break something their warranty will have you back in business in a jiffy. packrat | |||
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| one of us |
All of you Dillon lovers are crazy. Their products pale in comparison of RCBS. PERIOD. They have BY FAR the WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE. They do not stand behind a single product they produce. Furthermore, they ONLY sell to mail-order companies which leaves the retailer out of the loop and makes for horrible customer satifaction and support. RCBS has ALWAYS had the best customer service as well as superior products. Their PRO 2000 press is the top-of-the-line prgressive press of today. I will say, however, that not all of Dillon's progressives are bad. But if you want to get something that works as well as the RCBS PRO 2000, be prepared to pay more than it will cost for the actual RCBS press. But overall when it comes to customer support, RCBS will replace anything that breaks or is missing ABSOLUTELY FREE wheter it is misuse or not. For example, you could break a decapping rod or even the die body of an RCBS die, call up RCBS, tell them what has happened, and they will most likely SEND YOU AN ENTIRE DIE FOR FREE. Can Dillon match that? I didn't think so. The RCBS PRO 2000 would be by far the better choice for any progressive needs. It is EXTREMELY accurate and ultra-easy to use. I would recommend that anyone steer clear away from Dillon, trust me, you will be helping yourself in the future. | |||
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| one of us |
ShopCartRacing, I have no idea where you got your info on the dillon, but you are Wrong wrong wrong! There's a reloading shop down here in Montana that carries dillon products, any thing they make he has, so that shoots that theory down. As far as customer support, I broke a primer pin and they sent two the next day no questions asked. Dad blew up his primer tube, his fault not the presses, and called dillon, they overnighted the replacement parts, NO QUESTIOS ASKED. My dad has the 650 and I the 550. I say Blue all of the way. I had the oprotunity to use a RCBS press, and was not impressed. Real rough, not smooth at all and flimsy. I have rcbs dies and stuff, but never had to use an rcbs support so can't comment on that. But I can gaurantee you when dillon says NO BS warrenty they mean it and back it up. | |||
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| one of us |
ShopCartRacing, I have used many reloading products over the years, and I must say -Dillon- has the best customer service -period- Any and all questions asked were resolved on the spot, sometimes by Dillon family members themselves. Don't believe me? Call 1-800-223-4570 On the other hand, the worst experience I've had was with Lyman. I was even charged for a new catalog. Now, is that gratitude, or what? As for RCBS products, I own several. They make a good solid product, just not a great progressive press. The Rock Chucker and 10-10 scale must be counted among the greats. Dillon has always sold directly to the general public, its their bread and butter. To imply anything else is sheer folly. Dillon products were not generally available in stores until the mid 90's. If you are having retail problems with their products, rest assured it is your retailer, not Dillon. In closing, I can only think of one other company that has treated me as well as Dillon, and that company is Leupold. packrat | |||
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| <Bill T> |
Powderman, The main press bodies of Dillion presses are made from Aluminum, not Cast Iron. Bill T. | ||
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| one of us |
I would like to point out something that many are not aware of. It is that companies don't always make all of their "own" products. RCBS as example; their scales, at least the 10-10, are made my Ohaus and their electronic scale and dispensor are made by Pact. This is only a partial list. They simply pay the other companies to put their name on the products. They are not the only company that does this. I hate it when references are made to the quality of products supposedly made by one company when that company is not the one who should be praised or chastised. I think I probably own a piece of reloading equipment made by just about every company out there with a few exceptions. There is also nothing wrong with brand loyalty but make sure that loyalty is not misplaced. | |||
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| one of us |
ssleefl, Calling the Dillon frame material 'pot metal' is taking a pot shot! Alloyed aluminum is stronger(and lighter) than steel. The use of Bethlehem Steel I beams isn't needed with their 'O' frame design. You seem inclined towards the RCBS product so go ahead and buy that one and be happy. But if you really wanted to compare, call the folks at Dillon and have them send you a RL550B. They have a use it for 30 day money back guarantee. Try it, you might be enlightened. | |||
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| one of us |
Although off topic it is somewhat related to some of the posts. It was commented that the Dillon powder measure may be lacking. Well Dillon has now got an adapter that will allow you to use any manufacturer's powder measure with 7/8" x 14 threads on your AT 500 or RL 500B. Personnaly I have never had a problem with the Dillon powder measure not being consistent but options are always appreciated. | |||
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| one of us |
I've had my RCBS 2000 for a cople of years now and it's great. The priming system works and is easy to switch from large to small size primers. The Uniflow powder measure isn't quite up to my Redding 10X for consistancy, but it works well. The best thing about the RCBS 2000 is that it's a complete press - small and large primer punches, powder measure with pistol and rifle sized drums, the allen wrenches you need to do all of the adjustments, catch bin for the completed rounds and empty brass and a tray for the bullets. My press also came with the primer strip loading tool and a starter set of all the primer strips sizes and colors; not sure if they still come this way. This tool loads 500 primers into the plastic strips in a couple of minutes - that's from getting the tool out to putting it away (yes, I bought extra plastic strips in the sizes I use most). The instructions on the initial assembly could be a bit better, the powder measure only fits in one orientation, and it's possible to almost complete the assembly before you find out you have it backwards by the linkage binding up. That's the only complaint I have had about my RCBS 2000. | |||
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| one of us |
TO SHOPCARTRACING, I have to beleive that you are a Troll, because if you own any Dillon products you wouldn't be making those kinds of statements about their customer service and no B/S waranty. i have been shooting and re-loading since the 60's so i've been around awhile to see how the products of the major companies have progressed (gotten better or worse) in the last 40 years and also how customer service has progressed in the majior re-loading companies. i still have and use my RCBS Rock chucker that i bought in 1967 that's when they were still made with quality. i purchased a new Rock chucker a few years ago and noticed a difference in quailty between the two press. don't get me wrong, RCBS still makes a good press. just not as well made as they did then. seems like when they merged with Blount their quality dropped some.remember RCBS was top-dog back in those days. i noticed that LYMAN quality has dropped also as i also have quite a bit of thier products from then and now. customer service back then was not like it is today, sometimes they would not charge you for some parts, but most of the time you had to pay for everything. what changed customer service forever in the re-loading field is Dillon Precission. when Dillon came along with their no B/S waranty that and started replacing parts for free and refurburshing machines also for free even if you are not the orignal buyer that forced some of the other companies to offer something simular or loose a lot of the market. and yes i own Dillon products, but no i don't work for them. so in my 40 years of re-loading i found that doing business with Dillon to be a pleasnt expereince and also they do make a quality product. when they re-furbushed two used machines that i bought for free, and on one they had to replace the frame, that kinda made me look up. so shoppingcartracing, please forgive me if i just don't beleive you. or better yet explain to us here how Dillon treated you so wrongly. Rick [ 07-13-2003, 01:22: Message edited by: Rick from Kalifornia ] | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Every Dillon I own or have owned is/was made from the same cast potmetal used in the aircraft industry: aluminum. Same stuff my Hornady and Ponsness Warren are made of. I'm sticking with potmetal. Eddie | |||
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| one of us |
Well, if what you all say is true, perhaps their customer service has cleaned up a bit, however i dont have a problem with them on a customer level, and I have no need to gripe to my retailer... Because I AM A RETAILER. From the Dillon factory to the retailer (me), I would first have to go through a mail-order house and pay the same price any of you pay, and put it on my shelves for more than you can get it for direct to your home. Secondly, the Dillon company DOES NOT hold relatons with the retailer, they are STRICTLY a mail-order supplier as well as direct to the public salespeople. Therefore if I have a problem with a press I sell, they basically tell me to f off and eat it. For these reasons I have not stocked Dillon products in my store for 20 years. Horrible. | |||
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| one of us |
ShopCartRacing, On second thought, I'd have to agree with Rick from Kalifornia. | |||
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| one of us |
I think the world of both RCBS and Dillon. I use by 550 for large rifle and my 1050 for .223 and pistol. I have loaded over 100,000 rds thru the 1050 and I love it. The 550 loads as accurate ammo as any of my other 9 single stage presses. A lot of retailers are PO'd at Dillon for not letting them make money on the sales of their products, hence it makes it less expensive for us to buy progressive presses. Mike Dillon brought out the first and I think the finest progessive machines, the average reloader can buy. As for their warranty, if it breaks they replace it for free, regardless how it was broken. My father-in-law who could break a cannon ball, has broken the only parts on our Dillon press. I called them and told them it was thru ignorance and we should pay for the part. No dice, they shipped the part that day, free, and told me if I wanted to ship the part to them so they could see if it was a design flaw, do so, and they would remit my shipping costs. RCBS has been good to me, but nobody stands behind a product like Mike Dillon. | |||
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