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Gentlemen, I heard once that boat-tails were harder on barrels than flat-base bullets because the gasses trying to get past the bullet on the way down the barrel would either stretch the barrel, or be hard on the rifling or whatnot. Is that just a shooter's myth? I know that the downrange ballistics are better with boattails, but just wanted to know. Thanks for your input. Regards, Graham | ||
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Nope! Not true. ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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It's pure  /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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There is a certain amount of propellant gas which bypasses the bullets, both FB or BT, via the rifling anyway (i.e. bullets don't seal the bore 100%). You see this clearly on these highspeed shadowgraph pictures, where gases exit before the bullet leaves the muzzle. Generally one can expect to have no extra wear on the barrel by BT bullet - EXEPT in the muzzle area, where a minute valve effect may occur due to the now bypassing behind-BTbullet-gases at the millisecond the bullet exits. This does cause BT-typical muzzle erosion. On the other hand, BT bullets are less deformed by gas pressure (see Mann, Sharpe, Hatcher). ----------------------------- Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair. ~George Burns | |||
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"Are boat-tails harder on barrels?", is an old wives' tale... | |||
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Thanks, Gentlemen. All this begs one more question. Which are better for hunting? That is my primary reason for shooting, and I am wondering if flat base holds together better, or if one is substantially more accurate, or what? I currently use .30 cal Rem 180pspcl in my 30-06, and they put 3 in under an inch at 100. I have some 180 Hornadys that I plan to try next. After that, maybe some 190 gr. Hornady Boat-tails. Any input would be appreciated. Regards, Graham | |||
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The base of the bullet isn't a concern for hunting purposes unless you are shooting beyond 200 yds. Then the effect is to increase stability and reduce wind drift. The boat-tail is a stabilizing device for long range bullets and increases the BC of the bullet. ****************** "Policies making areas "gun free" provide a sense of safety to those who engage in magical thinking..." Glenn Harlan Reynolds | |||
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What are you hunting? The wgt and costruction of the bullet, bonded core, mono-metal, ect will make a bigger difference in the long run then simply boat tail or flat base. Some game needs a fast expanding bullet and other game a solid to insure deep penitration. For deer a std cup and core of proper wgt and construction will do fine. If you feel you need to spend more to kill one use a bonded core, and if you`re really well healed there are bullets that cost more each then the celebratory after hunt shot that will drop them just as dead.  ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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I use the following bullets in the calibers I hunt most with: .22-250 Remington - Sierra 52 grain HPBT .220 Swift - Sierra 55 grain SBT .243 Winchester - Sierra 85 grain HPBT 6MM Remington - Sierra 85 grain HPBT .25-06 Remington - Sierra 120 grain HPBT .264 Winchester Magnum - Sierra 140 grain HPBT 7MM Remington Magnum - Sierra 168 grain HPBT .30-06 Springfield - Sierra 168 grain HPBT .300 Winchester Magnum - Sierra 200 grain HPBT 8MM Remington Magnum - Sierra 220 grain SBT .357 Magnum (handgun) - Sierra 158 grain JHC .44 Magnum (handgun) - Sierra 240 grain JHC I have never had any problem with these bullets in taking game. 99.99% have been one-shot kills with no tracking, on animals from bumble bees to elk, at ranges from 35 feet to 725 yards. | |||
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Steve, why do I get the impression you like BT bullets...??  - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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...and who cares about Nosler, Hornady, Barnes, Norma... | |||
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Why do I like BT bullets? Well, there are several reasons. 1) In my firearms they are more accurate and consistant at the ranges I generally hunt; 2) They keep the mass of the bullet more forward; 3) They are a hell of a lot easier to load. As for other bullet makers... I do shoot a couple of Nosler, Speer and Hornady bullets, but they are not my first choice. I have found Sierra bullets (again) more accurate and consistant in my rifles. And Barnes? It'll be a cold in hell before you see anything on my reloading bench with "Barnes" on it! As for Norma and Lapua products ... who can afford them in the quantities I shoot? Some non-Sierra bullets I use: .17 Bee - Hornady 25 grain JHP .17 Mach IV - Hornady 25 grain JHP .17 Remington - Hornady 25 grain JHP .22 Savage - Hornady 70 grain SP .25-06 Remington - Nosler 120 grain SBT .256 Winchester - Hornady 75 grain HP 7MM Remington Magnum - Nosler 175 grain Partition .30 Herrett - Hornady 150 grain RN .30-06 Springfield - Nosler 180 grain Partition .30-30 Winchester - Speer 170 grain FP .45-70 Government - Hornady 350 grain RN .45-70 Government - Speer 400 grain FN .45-70 Government - Hornady 500 grain RN .458 Winchester Magnum - Hornady 500 grain FMJ-RN | |||
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Non bonded BT bullets can slip their cores. Also a flat base bullet can be more accurate at shorter ranges, under 300yds. Try them yourself & see. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Also a boat-tail bullet can be more accurate at shorter ranges, under 300 yards. Depending on which bullets your gun likes, either one or the other can be more accurate. To say the flat base bullets are in general more accurate at short ranges is pure "In case of a thunderstorm stand in the middle of the fairway and hold up a 1 iron, not even God can hit a 1 iron"............Lee Trevino. | |||
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the 11 degree target crown you see on a lot of rifles was designed for/with the boat tailed bullets in mind. something about smoother gas flow as the bullet leaves the barrel. PLEASE EXCUSE CAPS, HANDICAPPED TYPIST. "THE" THREAD KILLER IT'S OK......I'VE STARTED UP MY MEDS AGAIN. THEY SHOULD TAKE EFFECT IN ABOUT A WEEK. (STACI-2006) HAPPY TRAILS HANDLOADS ARE LIKE UNDERWEAR....BE CAREFUL WHO YOU SWAP WITH. BILL | |||
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I see that Steve and I continue to get closer in our thoughts on what works and what doesn't. It may set us apart from the masses, but I know I can live with that. Cheers Steve ...................   Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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Steve, I have also had very good accuracy with the Sierra bullets. This past season I used TSXs and they worked perfectly. I am curious as to why you do not like Barnes. | |||
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Imagine the base to barrel junction magnified to permit you to see a single gas molecule. Then try to explain that either base type makes a difference. The gas molecule is way too small to know if there is a boat tail or not. | |||
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Thanks ya'll for the input. The basic premise that I am seeing here is that there may or may not be an accuracy advantage under 300 yards, which would be about as far away as I would shoot on 98% of my shooting for big game. I hunt moose, elk, deer, and coyotes, and I hope to hunt the odd pig this summer. Thanks all for your thoughts. It seems to me that there is not much point in getting excited about boat-tails if I am already getting good accuracy with what I am using now. Regards, Graham | |||
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For several reasons: 1) I can't see paying twice as much for half as many bullets; 2) I have never had a Barnes bullet print the best group, regardless of caliber or weight; 3) Barnes "customer service" is crude, rude and totally obnoxious; 4) I bought a copy of the Barnes reloading software, and it had problems. Less than 30 days after I purchased it, I contacted Barnes and told them of the problem. They told me they were aware of the problems, and were releasing a new version. I asked if they would send me a copy, and they replied that they would be glad to, once I paid full price for it! No "upgrade", no discount because the previous product was defective, and no discount because it was less than 30 days old. I guess 4 reasons are enough... | |||
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Boat tails harder on barrels? Yes. But not enough to lose much sleep over... Here's another vote for "The Bulletsmiths" ;-) Dennis BTW, they may not be the most accurate and don't forget that their trajectory "advantage" doesn't kick in until below the speed of sound as I remember... "Five beans in the wheel" | |||
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True, but I believe the perceived advantage is that the flat base expands from the propellant pressure and seals the bore better/easier than a boat tail. How much??? I dunno, but that is the theory... Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. | |||
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Thanks Steve, I knew I could get a very to the point answer from you. Good points to think about. | |||
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