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Quote: I don't take texas heart shots and the bullets that I use to hunt big game are labelled by Nosler as hunting bullets not varmint bullets.You want to quote the nosler manual when it favors you yet ignore it when it doesn't as when nosler calls the ballistic tip a big game bullet. Why do scots wear kilts? because sheep can hear zippers | ||
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Wow 5 pages for an answer to a simple question. Lets see the question was does anyone have experience using 150 gr. Ballistic tips on deer and wild hogs. My answer is NO. But I have lots of experience using 125, 165, and 180 grain BT's on PA. white tail and groundhogs. Most experience is with 165 grainers out of a 300 Win. mag. Plan out flattens deer. I have only recovered one bullet from all the deer I have shot and that one was from a deer shot at about 350 yards. The bullet entered the neck behind the ear with the deer quartering towards me. I found the jacket attached to the hide behind the far front shoulder. The core passed clear through. This deer dropped in it's tracks. The insides were turned to jello and the only meat ruined was the neck roast. No bullet failure in my opinion. Even shooting targets as small as groundhogs the bullet ripped them apart. I find it amazing how a bullet can explode a grondhog yet hold together enough to get exits on every deer I have shot with them. As for 125 grain BT's I have only killed one deer with them from a .308. Wound was no different than with the 165's out of the .300. One kill also with 180's in the .300 and again wound typical of all the others. Will they ruin some meat? Yes if you hit meat it will get blood shot. I personally aim for behind the shoulder and I don't eat the ribs. As for meat damage the worst damage I ever did to a deer was with a 30-06 and a deer I shot with a pointed soft point bullet. Not sure what brand just know it was 150 grain. Someone that hunted the farm reloaded for us kids on the farm back then. I hit that deer behind the shoulder and it exited between the shoulders and you could stick both hands in the hole. Bullet still did the job it killed the deer. I have never hunted hogs so I can not say if I would use 150's out of a WSM for them or not. At the range you will be hunting 165's or 180's should do fine for deer though. One thing I will add though, I find Seirra Game Kings more accurate than Nosler BT's. I am just hooked on BT's for killing but would never pick them for punching paper. | |||
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jeffeosso,..sounds as though your experiences are jaded by those around you,..(obviously quite a few) who just can't shoot. Speaking of the "I missed it" with a bloodtrail or the ass shot hog,..I can't see how being around that caliber of shooter that you would find ANY pill adequate or acceptable.  | |||
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You might find this quote of interest Quote: This quote is taken from http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/plastic_fantastic/ If ballistic tips are not suitable for big game such as elk why would Noslers own Chub Eastman choose to use them on elk when he could use noslers partition?Nosler does recommend the partition for larger game but it is obvious that some very prominent nosler employees are aware that the larger caliber ballistic tips will also work well for this application. | |||
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When I was tempted to switch to Ballistic Tips from Partitions I did some terminal ballistic testing in water and sand and wasn't impressed. Then I killed a couple of deer with the 150gr Ballistic Tip and felt it was too expansive and went back to my Partitions. In defense of the Ballistic tip though... It is an excellent varmint bullet, very accurate, and pretty good for medium game if you jump up in weight to a 180 (308 cal for whitetail) but then who needs the extra recoil and rainbow trajectory? Make mine a Partition. They kill extremely quickly from any angle and you can eat right up to the hole. My favorite deer load for a 308 is a 150gr Partition in front of 48.5gr of Rx 15 out of my 20" barreled Model 7. It runs about 2750fps and is a certain bang-flop load as evidenced by 20 in a row killed with one shot and not one of them went over 10yds when hit. I don't use a 300WSM for whitetail unless I'm reaching out on the powerlines but then use a 180gr BT. These shots usually run from 200-600yds. If forced to use a 300WSM for deer under 200yds I'd try a 180gr Ballistic Tip but would call Nosler first and ask them what they thought. A 165gr Partition might be good too but 300WSM is really too much gun for whitetail under 200yds if you care about the meat. For hogs I use Partitions exclusively. Same load as my deer load above but if I expected BIG boars I'd step up to a 180gr Partition. $bob$ | |||
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Quote: Sir, interesting thought, as the geneva convention outlawed ALL softpoints for exactly the same reason.. slow painful death. or, perhaps, you are saying that all african hunters, that use solids, are also somehow inhumane? Ya'll must be getting a special batch of BTs, to have all that penetration. i'm done jeffe | |||
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Quote: I truely feel for you...if you have to guide (read chaperone) prople who will take ass shots, I would require nothing less than a barnes x...personally if I can't get a clean shot into the ribs, I wait. Trophy or not...but my ethics are unique to me, I know there are plenty out there who think otherwise. It is as simple as recognizing the limitations of my equipment, and hunting within them. There is no perfect solution, only ones that work for the individual! Mine these days is a 180 NBT from a 300WSM into the front 1/3 of a deer or pig, or I keep hunting... | |||
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Quote: BS!!! And as for the insecurities, the ones who lash out with insults seem to be the insecure ones...and if you weren't talking to me directly, be more careful which message you reply to... Nosler specifically states that the BT's are specifically for DEER AND ANTELOPE (in appropriate weights, not varmit weights). Re-read my post, I am talking about whitetail deer with 165 and 180 grainers! Everyone has to live with their own choices, me with mine and you with yours (just look at my signature). If you are so set in yours, great! State your preference, but leave the venom offline, as it really does nothing for the conversation at hand... | |||
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Quote: Are you sure that it wasn't because of the terrible wounds and disfigurement caused in non fatal cases? Do you really expect people to believe that expanding bullets cause slower more painful deaths and that non expanding bullets would cause quicker kills with less suffering?Perhaps you should explain your theory to all of the game departments so that they can change the regulations so that hunters must use only non-expanding bullets in order to eliminate those "slow painful deaths" that expanding bullets are causing. | |||
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I'd use the cheapest/heaviest bullet Winchester sells which I believe is the 180 power point. It's a better overall bullet than the 150 BT for short ranges anyway. I don't use Balistic tips simply because of the way every discussion of them flys to pieces like this one has. My one experience with the Ballistic tip was a 150 grain pushed to 2550 in my 7x57 and it worked perfectly with exit of reasonable dimension. Thru lungs broadside, deer ran 30 yards just like any other bullet. | |||
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thank you!! | |||
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It seems like every time the NBT discussion gets going there are lots of folks (including me) that have used them for years w/ GREAT sucess and there is just a few negative responses towards them. That proves one thing: NBTs are great hunting bullets! I have heard many many more complaints of Barnes X, Failsafes, and Partitions in my neck of the woods (due to there poor expansion especially at any descent range). I have also expiereinced very poor performance from some of the "Hard to Destruct bullets" but, I realize that they do have there place (Very large Game). When we are talking game from Elk on down, NBTs are excellent performers. The "No Penetration" issues are simply not true I have shot game from 500# Boar on down to 100# whitetails and the lack of penetration w/ NBTs has never been an issue. Sure the tough bullets will kill the smaller big game but, They do it slowly and inhumane in many cases. They were designed for very Big Game animals so, why use them on something they were not designed for. It's kind of like Perch fishing w/ a #8 Stump Hook. Good Luck and God Bless! Reloader | |||
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My friend that I hunt with killed his doe last year using a 220 swift loaded with NBT, shot it at about 75 yards, took a couple steps and collapsed. Personally I wouldnt use a .22 caliber high velocity round loaded with BTs for deer but it worked for him. Myself I used a 7mm08 carbine with factory loaded hollowpoints and I got an exit wound but the deer made it farther than his. | |||
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CDH: nope, I wasn't referring to you directly or anybody else for that matter. Nevertheless, if the "be careful" was some sort of warning, I'm sorry but warnings don't work very well behind the comfort of the computer screen. Just to clear the air, Nosler BTs are good bullets if used within the parameters they were intended for by Nosler themselves. Out of a 3006, a 165-180 Bt will work quite handily on deer-sized animals, I just think that for moose and elk, there are better choices out there for elk and bigger game, like the Partition or the new Accubond for instance if you like to stick with Noslers. anybody can cite all the examples they want, but shooting 180gr NBTs out of a 300 Magnum, any magnum at close range on larger game is asking for trouble unless you are VERY surgical with your shots. No venom, just an opinion based on my experience. jorge | |||
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Have no experience with the BT's,,, Arn't the SST's suppost to be a little tougher? They shoot great for me will try on game this fall | |||
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how dead do you need a deer or an animal. sounds to me the bullet did the job. if you personally need other results then use whatever gives you what you want. everyones criteria is different but dead is dead. we have so much to choose from in bullets and combos. everyone could be right or wrong depending on the criteria or situation. use what you feel comfortable with. if the ultimate goal before the shot is to kill that target then the gun/bullet didn't fail if it accompolished the job. just my thoughts! thanks! | |||
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Jeffeosso wrote: Quote: Funny, I didn't see those examples in any of the post.  Oh, even if they did happen, looks like all of them died.  3 dead deer, 3 failures???  Reloader | |||
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Quote: You are correct,....they are "supper accurate" Nearly every time I fire one,..I have "supper" on the ground Anyway,..please,..all non-beleivers,..just don't use them so that the prices go down even more. | |||
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Quote: Thanks for the input your opinion is at least as valid as mine. guilty? sure... BT's are guilty.. by the very facts that those that love them use to promote them... "i put it behind the shoulder, into the ribs, and had a 4" exit wound" bullet failure "i shot the 6 point buck, facing me, in the chest... no exit wound, the buck dropped right there..at 50 yards" bullet failure "I was shooting my 701 supper magnum and 3500 fps... the pronghorn change into range at 600.. i decided to wait until i could be certain that i could hit the front of the animail... I turned the scope up to 18, and lasered him from the stand... 440 220 yards, ... perfect..." and that bullet STILL exploded in a [tiny] criter.. bullet failure. plain and simple.. the maker of the bullet has a premium bullet for those that care to use it... and then they have the supper cheap BTs.. oh, BT's are highly accurate... so's a FMJ HP in a 223.... and neither are suitable, though they are used, on game jeffe | |||
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I have used NBT's in 4 different calibers on deer and Caribou and have had nothing but great results from the at any velocity. | |||
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I shoot somewhere in the region of 50 deer a year with ballistic tips and have never had a problem. If you place your shot in the right place, the bullet does the business. Bullet construction doesn't make up for poor shot placement! Ed | |||
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