I reloaded some 7mm Rem Mag for my friend, 160 grain Speer Mag Tips right on the cannelure, shorter than the reloads for my Savage, and even a bit shorter than the book says to load them to. We went to shoot them, and the bolt wouldn't close. We pulled the shell out, and the rifling was pressed all up the bullet and onto the neck of the case. I have never seen anything like this, his factory rounds were just barely shorter, but no marks on even his bullets. My loads with the same bullet are longer, and I have no rifling marks. I think his gun is a Weatherby Vanguard, what would be the cause for this? The rounds from his gun fit fine in my chamber, but now I am unsure if the loads I made are safe.

Could you have tried to force a 7mm Weatherby Magnum cartridge into a 7mm Remington Magnum chamber? The Weatherby cartridge is longer.

If you're sure that's not the problem, check the case length. Cartridges like this can "grow" quite a bit in neck length from firing and full length resizing. It's dangerous when the neck grows out to interfere with the throat of the bore. They need trimming back.

Nope, 7mm Rem Mag, brass was just once fired, no visible size difference from my once fired shells. They fit fine in my Savage 110 which puzzled me. Also, I have no intentions of firing any handloads I ever make in his gun, but if someone did fire a round that was jammed into the chamber and rifling, what would happen, something serious? I'm asking because he almost shot before I told him to take the shell out.

I checked his brass that he gave me, it is Winchester once fired, brass is 2.493, 2.5 is maximum length. My twice fired is 2.495, and my once fired but loaded brass of the same brand is 2.498, how does that work? Either way, the brass is short of 2.5, and the rifling engraved probably a tenth of an inch down the brass, I'm assuming this shouldn't happen ever?

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
I checked his brass that he gave me, it is Winchester once fired, brass is 2.493, 2.5 is maximum length. My twice fired is 2.495, and my once fired but loaded brass of the same brand is 2.498, how does that work? Either way, the brass is short of 2.5, and the rifling engraved probably a tenth of an inch down the brass, I'm assuming this shouldn't happen ever?

The rifling should extend no where near the case mouth let alone mark the case. Something is definatly wrong. I`d double check the barrel/chamber to be sure of the cartridge called for. If you are useing the right cartridge then I`d have a smith look the rifle over.

What is the COAL when loaded to the cannalure? The mag tip and grand slams have a different profile on the ogive, than their sptz bt and sptz bullets and loads to a shorter overall length. I ran into a similar problem with this bullet maybe 10 years ago, and can't remember the details , but in my Speer#12 manual I have a note written in ink at the bottom of the page, 160 mag tip seated to cannalure touches rifling. THey show as tested 3.280 oal for the spitz and 3.225 oal for the magtip. Take a fired case and size about 1/16 inch of the neck, start one of the magtip bullets in the case with the seater die, just start it in maybe 1/8 inch, drop this dummie into his chamber, close the bolt and slowly eject the round, be careful to catch it in your hand so you don't drop it, now measure COAL, seat the bullet .025" deeper than that, see how that chambers. Looks like maybe this bullet has the cannalure located a little off for throats on some barrels, mines a S&W 1500 not a weatherby vanguard, but both were made by same co, Howa Machine and tool.

Hey Tyler, I see a couple of things that I would do differently.

1. I consider it a very BAD idea to Load ammo for anyone besides myself. If something does go wrong, the Insurance Companies will go after whatever you are worth. And if you are under age, they have no problem at all Bankrupting your folks.

I used to load for some of my buddies and decided it was a BAD idea when I saw a guy I worked with go after someone else in a non-shooting related accident.

I've found it better to invite the Buddy over and let him do his own Reloading. The Lawyers might still look at me as an Instructor, but if the Buddy "doesn't have time" to do it, then I'm not real concerned about his ammo.

2. Anytime I begin Reloading for a rifle, I find it improtant to have the Rifle nearby. This allows me to verify what the Kiss-the-Lands distance actually is. Guessing at it causes mistakes.

3. You did not mention using a Starting Load. Perhaps you did, but if you did not, that is a HUGE mistake. All rifles are different. "most" will handle the MAX Manual Loads and do just fine. But some won't. It might Lock the Bolt up, but it "probably" wouldn't. Just a BAD practice.

Plus by Loading at only one level, the chances of hitting a good Harmonic are very slim. There is still a lot of discussion about "Universal Loads" which folks claim work great in EVERY rifle chambered for a specific cartridge. That is a sure sign of someone with very little First Hand Experience. Way too many variables to get the best possible accuracy in all rifles with a Universal Load.

This gets back to our Buddies taking the proper amount of time Develop his own Loads. If they don't have the time, then I let them use Factory ammo.

Best of luck to you.

99% of the time, you can not load a 7 mm Mag Tip to the cannelure, as it it will be too long and jam into the rifling.

I used lowish level loads for the rounds I loaded for him. I loaded with him by my side to show him the process. I doubt I'll load any more loads for him, I don't want to get anyone hurt without me being there to see pressure signs, etc. I'll check how far out I need to sit my bullets in to be just off the rifling. How much should I take them off the rifling, .025? I totally forgot about seating close to the rifling, I did this with some 162 grainers, but they are much longer than the 160s. Thanks for the advice everyone.

Aside from the above good advice, he still has a problem. The rifle was engraving rifling on the case necks. The case necks are too long for the chamber.

"I have never seen anything like this, his factory rounds were just barely shorter, but no marks on even his bullets."

The factory ammo chambers and fires, the rifle was test fired and came with a target.The brass was measured and was within spec, as was the factory rounds. I'll bet the marks on the neck are sizer die scratches or gilding metal scraped off the mag-tip bullets and deposited in the chamber/neck area that scratch trhe casing. What was the COAL of the reloaded rounds you tried to chamber? Are you sure the bullets are 7mm-.284"? Measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded round, it should be .315" or less. Just because a reloaded round chambers in your Savage doesn't mean it will in another rifle, especially if you are chasing the rifleing in your worn barrel, and his is new. You need to have his rifle there when you load for it, even to get a starting load. Let us know what you find out. The Speer mag-tip has the cannalure located wrong IMHO.

I will update further on thursday, and post pics, but my shells are all at the gun club where I work, along with my gun. The Savage shouldn't have much barrel wear at all, it probably doesn't have 200 rounds through it, his has at least that. The rifling wasn't just scraping the brass, it was pretty much crimping it into the bullet. I showed my boss today, and he said something was wrong with the gun, not my reloads. Once I get those shells I'll try to post pics and measurements.