I have a .22-250 that I am loading for. I am using WIN brass. After two firings the bolt is hard to close on these rounds. I am just neck sizing the brass and trimming. Why is this happening? Do I need to bump the shoulder back? Should I use my Full Length resizing die to do this? Any assistance would be welcome.

Thanks!

SB

[ 12-11-2002, 19:26: Message edited by: Shark Bait ]

Yes, you need to FL size and bump the shoulder back. You should adjust your FL die so that it only bumps the should back .001 or .002 to minimize working the brass. If you set the FL die the way the die manufactures suggest, it will work, but the shoulder get pushed too far back for your rifle and you will get more case stretch with each sizing/fireing cycle and reduce the number of times you can reload your brass.

So how do you set the die to bump back only a thousandth or two? How can you measure this?

Chris

I'll describe the method that I use.

Remove the bolt and remove the firing pin/shroud assembly so the bolt is bare. If you have a mauser type extractor, remove the extractor and band. You have to do this or you can not get the "feel". Try the bolt now on an empty chamber, it will just drop by letting go of the handle. Now try it on one of your fired cases, note the effort required to close the bolt. Don't start with the die all the way down, and size a case. Try the sized case in the gun. Most likely, it will feel the same as the fired brass. Screw the die in a little, size another case, and try it in the gun. Repeat until eventually it will be easier to close the bolt than your fired case, but harder than empty chamber. Then you've got it. I like to size where it is about half the force of a fired brass, just bumping the shoulder back a little.

Edited to add: You can also use the RCBS case micrometer. Measure a fired case, then adjust the dies so that the headspace on a re-sized case is 0.001-0.002" less than fired case.

Good luck, you should like the results.

Bill

[ 10-10-2002, 02:00: Message edited by: Bill M ]

I would appreciate any additional feedback on this subject.

I think I`d try setting the shoulder back also. Are you lubeing the inside of your case necks when you size them? I`ve also had the expander ball stretch the shoulder out a bit when its pulled back out of the case when useing a neck die. I had to polish the expander a little on a set of 708 dies because of this problem.
I`d full size my cases with the die set up as Bill suggested. Then see if polishing the expander and lubeing the inside of the necks will help you get a few more loads from your cases with out full sizing as often.

The easiest way I have found to set the shoulder back "minimally" is to smoke the shoulder of the case. Then just keep running the case a little deeper until the shoulder of the brass shows it touches the die somewhere around 30 to 50% of the area. That is usually enough bump to make the problems go away. HTH, Dutch.

Do it the way that Bill M suggested. Never mind smoking the shoulder. Fit the case to the chamber.

Shark Bait,
If cases are getting tight after only a couple of firings there must be a cause.
The most common cause is a bolt face that is not square to the bore. This is a likely problem if the rifle is a Rem 700.
Another cause is a chamber that is not round.
Another is a chamber wherein there is "chatter" in the shoulder area. It is a good idea to ascertain just what the problem is unless you just want to work around the problem. Once the problem is indentified you can choose a course of action to eiter remedy the problem or work around it.
There are a bunch of well qualified gunsmiths who could probably do this for you. Regards, Bill.

I have the same problem and was going to post about it a year ago. I don't use the gun much. It is a Remington 700 BDL in a lefty so it may have been made between 80-82. I have my die bottomed out on the shell holder and it doesn't help. It shoots good, but the bolt closes a little to hard if I need to make a follow up shot on a coyote that's headin out. I've been toying with the idea of a 22-250 AI. If the barrel is set back, this would help shouldn't it??

Hello Jesse,

How do factory cartridges chamber? If OK, there is probably nothing wrong with headspace, it is in the resizing operation. Make sure that the inside of the neck is lubricated properly so that it is not pulling the neck/shoulder back out with the expander ball (you can check this by removing the expander and see how the bolt closes on resized case). You might try a different re-sizing die or "offset" shell holder(s). If that still doesn't work, you could ream the existing chamber deeper, and you might not have to set the barrel back or rechamber to a different cartridge to do this. Of course you can if you want to....

(Edited to add) Thanks for the warning claybuster, good way of saying "be careful"!

Regards, Bill

[ 10-14-2002, 20:29: Message edited by: Bill M ]

The 22-250 is noted for case stretch especially if your firing stiff loads. FL and NS size four cases, two cases each and trim to length. Chamber them before you reload them to see if that solves the hard bolt close problem. If the bolt still closes hard on the case with no bullet powder or primer in the case the primer may not be seated fully into the case. Then load those same four cases and chamber them to see if they chamber hard. If they do then your problem is in the loading process. Do you have the bullets seated into or against the lands during your loading process? You can set your FL sizer die so it just bumps the shoulder back by leaving 1/64" space between the shell holder and the FL sizer die at full swing.

Had the same problem useing Winchester brass and I think everyone is missing the boat. Think your problem is neck thickness. If you can not slip a bullet into a fired case easily the neck is too thick. The .22/250 case has alot of taper and the brass ends up in the neck and they grow in lenghth also,more so than some AI type cases. Check this first.
Just my $.02 worth.
Dan

After two firings the bolt is hard to close on these rounds. I am just neck sizing the brass and trimming. Why is this happening?

Because you are neck sizing.........Don't do that. With a factory rifle you are asking for problems. You are not shooting a close spec bench gun. You are also shooting a high pressure cartridge. Tollerences will add up to trouble. You might also be sizing just short of hitting the shoulder. When you squeeze the body and don't tufh the shoulder you can lenghten the case. I bet would not see any signficant accuaracy difference if you went ahead and ran the case all the way up in the die. Probably simillar case life. Unless the rifle has long headspace I just run them all the way in and accept diminished case life. Cases will only cost about $25.00 per 100. Is the frustration worth it?

Jesse Jaymes,

I bought a set of 9mm dies from RCBS a couple of years ago. Even with the resizer die bottomed out on the shell holder, the cases would not squeeze down enough to chamber in my pistol. I borrowed a set of Lee dies from a friend and everthing chambered fine. I called RCBS to discuss the problem with them. They suggested that I grind down the bottom of the resizer die. I told them that I expected the dies to be finished when I bought them. Their response was, "Oh, well". That was the last set of RCBS dies that I will ever buy.

Sharkbait,
I have to disagree with most of the posters here. A modern bolt action rifle firing normal pressure loads will NEVER suffer your problem with neck sized cases.
At "normal" pressures brass is elastic and will expand the small amount to seal the chamber and then spring back so that it will chamber easily with or without any sizing. If your cases will chamber after you fire them, and they don't chamber after you size them then you are having problems in the fabrication of your cases. If they don't chamber easily after you fire them and before any sizing then you are firing loads that are way above the normal standard pressures for your rifle / case combination.

PaulS

If the brass gets tight after one firing and tighter after another then I still think the fault is probably with the rifle. Reloading techniques can be altered to work around the problem but this does not address the root cause. Regards, Bill.

For the most part I tend to agree with Bill, the action appears to be allowing the case to stretch more than it is supposed to be able to.

If FL sizing doesnt do the job then check for set back lugs.

If your using a Lee trimmer you may want to double check the length with calipers just to be certian it is correct.

Good luck.

Possably a rough chamber look at your brass and if there are maching rings all over your brass your chamber might need polishing which does not cost alot or you can do it yourself.

Possably a rough chamber look at your brass and if there are machineing rings all over your brass your chamber might need polishing which does not cost alot or you can do it yourself.

Your loads may be a bit hot. Do you notice any difference in primer seating resistance after two or three firings? If so, too hot.

To set the shoulder back, the easy way is to just screw the full length sizing die down a little at a time until the empty cases chamber in your rifle. I then back the die out a bit and try again to make sure I am at minimum sizing. This will give maximum case life as well as chambering ease.

This presumes you have checked case length and neck thickness first.

Any rifle that has been fed a steady diet of hot loads will in a short period of time fail. The most common is a stretched action due to excessive pressure. Constant reloading problems will result from those stiff loads. Hard bolt lift, hard chambering problems, excessive brass flow in the chamber during firing. Flatened primers flowing into the firing pin opening. Modern rifle chmabers are designed to withstand excessive pressure to a point. After many over charge firings that action will become fatigued and will fail.

All - Thanks for the feedback. I am shooting loads considerably under published maximum in this gun. I find my best accuracy below maximum loads. I don't experience loose primers on subsequent reloads, don't see any tooling marks on the brass, don't see any ejector marks or cratering of primers either. I also have not experienced this with Remington, Federal or Norma brass. In fact I dont even see it with the W-W headstamp, only the WIN headstamp. Could it be that this lot of brass is just very soft? Hmmmmm.

I've had at least one case of Winchester Brass and WLR primers where the primers didn't seat flush. The bolt closed a little hard on the cases and the primer had a ring on it from the firing pin opening. The solution in this case was just to ream the primer pockets a little deeper.

I only neck size, and after a couple of loads the bolt closes snug on the cases. I don't think this is a problem, if you want more slop you need to full length size. I also, stick with below maximum loads. I can't shoot well enough to get the long range benefits and up close it doesn't matter.