Had this posted in the big bore forum, but it was suggested I also post here.

First, I apologize if there is a post on this somewhere, I have read through old posts on several boards for the last few days and have not definitively found my answer, which involves the best dies/ way to load for the 375 h&h, specifically.

The question I have concerns sizing, primarily. I have read many opinions on neck v full v partial etc. on various boards speaking generally, but it seems like the h&h is a little different in that it has so little of a shoulder and stretches so readily, that I want to address it specifically.

My desire is for consistent ammo and case life. I dont' think that neck v others will make that much a difference in accuracy for me..ie this is hunting rifle, not a target rifle, and I am not that good anymore for it to show.

However, it seems like neck or partial sizing would be best for case life. However, eventually, one must full length size, as I understand. And there is also the reliability factor. So that would seem to detract from consistency if you generally neck or partial size and then change for hunting ammo or due to cases not fitting anymore (velocity, accuracy, point of aim?).

But just full length resizing everytime would also seem to significantly shorten case life from what I have read.

So how do you all handle this for the h&h? I was going to go with the Lee collet die for general use, a forster ultra for seating, and then a redding body die for periodic use, based on some advice I found on an old post for a different cartridge. However, it appears that redding does not make a body die for the 375, nor an s bushing die either. So that is a problem. But maybe just a regular sizer is what would be best and just partial resize? How much would things change when the cases are full length sized?

Concerning the seater, maybe the ultra is overkill? I am shooting a winchester, so probably will have a very set COL due to the length of the box, so maybe the micrometer would be wasted, not sure.

Thanks!

Well hopefully I understand the question, but if it were me, I would get an RCBS precision mic and measure the once fired brass and then set your sizer to push the shoulder back a couple of thou less than your chamber measurement. This would ensure proper feeding and also minimize how much you work your brass. That's what I do for my match ammo and it seems to work well for me.

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...c-375-h-and-h-magnum

I really like the Forster Ultra Seater, it works great for fine-tuning your seating procedure. Also great for trying different bullets and seating depths, I don't think the Ultra Seater is overkill at all. I actually like the Forster over any of the other micrometer adjustable dies that I've tried.

Chad, I can only respond to the question of Neck vs. Full Length sizing.

Neck sizing and annealing both reportedly will extend case life. As will using reduced or non-max loads. One question I have though is just how much life do you need/want? Five Loadings? 10 Loadings? 20?

Also, are you talking about hunting loads or target loads?

I found that Neck sizing just doesn't really work for me. Sure, it may make case life last longer but the issue is that the case is now fitted to exactly one chamber with minimal tolerances. I found with a couple of my rifles that neck-sized brass just wouldn't chamber right.

As a general rule, hunting loads should be FL sized to allow a small amount more tolerance to aid in chambering.

In the end, I just didn't find that neck sizing was worth the theoretical benefit to me. I use 90% loads at the range for practice and step it up to 100% loads (tested, benched, chrono'ed, etc.) for hunting. This allows me to get long case life as well as consistent load development.

As to the .375 H&H I get about 8-10 loads out of the cases before I discard them. I trim (trim die) about every other loading but I'm rather anal about that for no particular reason. Most of the time it's just a minimal trim - one or two licks with a file. I use one box of 50 cases and load them and only them until I'm ready to discard them. I keep a count on the box of how many loadings I've been through. When I hit 10 (my self proscribed max) I pitch the lot of 50 and start with a fresh batch.

More importantly with the long long cases like the .375 H&H check the inside of the case with a bent paperclip and be very, very cautious looking for a bright ring about 3/8" above the belt. That bright ring is indicative of a pending case-head separation and most definitely could be a very bad thing!

I'm sure others will have different opinions. For me, 100% reliability is the highest paramount and I'll take a 1/2" loss in group size even if the difference of theorized reliability is only real in my head.

Thanks for the responses!

From what I am gathering, it looks like the only real choice I have is to use a FL die and put up with the expander. I was trying to avoid that for case life issues. But yeah, I would like to get 10 plus loadings from cases if possible.

Probably partial FL sizing is the way to go as you describe, just bump back the shoulder a bit and size the neck and leave the rest alone as much as possible. Someone mentioned to me that the Forster dies are 'tighter' than many others and this seemed a bad thing. But now that I think about it, I wonder if that would be good for partial FL sizing, so the body does not get so wide, but the length stays perfect on the shoulder...dunno, just thinking off the top of my head.

Anyway, I will first be working up hunting loads, as far as what I practice with, likely the same so that I am used to the recoil and POI etc. I am hoping to come up with a load in time to get the free turret for the Zeiss I just bought. Supposed to have the numbers to Kenton by end of February. Not sure I will make it.

I usto to reload for 375 a very long time ago, but much has changed (and I have forgotten much too!). Thanks for the insights!

While every gun is an individual there are some things that most share.
1. A fired case will fit the chamber it was fired from with no resizing as long as the pressures are safe in that firearm.
2. Neck sizing only resizes the neck of the cartridge and should not touch the shoulder.
3. A neck sized case fired with safe loads will never need to have the shoulder pushed back but it will need to be trimmed.

These are facts that I have shown to be true throughout my 45+ years reloading in bolt and break-open single shot rifles. I have reloaded cases over 20 times when neck sizing only in 30-30, 3006, 308, and 358 Win. without annealing a single case or needing to full length size at any time. If the shoulder is moving forward in a neck-sized case then you are loading beyond safe limits in your gun. In order for the shoulder to move forward the brass has to be expanding beyond its elastic limits which means that the chamber is stretching during the firing process. That means that your pressures are too high in that rifle. Any time a fired case will not fit back into the chamber it was fired from it is a sign that your pressures are exceeding the limits of the action.

I FL resize everything as I need to feed multiple rifles. Brass lasts a long time; start with 100 pieces and go through all of it in rotation. Even if you eventually get separations, they won't hurt anything; just leaves the front of the brass to jam up your rifle. NOT good for DG. But don't worry about that; as Paul said, brass will last a long time. After you shoot those 1000 plus rounds from your 375, come back and ask again.

The .375 H&H loads no differently from any other bottlenecked case and has ample shoulder for headspacing. Just compare it to a 9mm Parabellum, which headspaces on nothing other than almost imperceptible case taper.

Feel free to use a Lee Collet die. If your resized cases give you difficulty in re-entering the chamber, then your pressures are unsustainably high.

Despite years of "conventional wisdom" to the contrary, case shape has little to do with case stretching. Stretching is almost totally a function of how generous the headspace is. With neck-sized brass you have minimal headspace.

Don't forget, if you are seeing early brass failure it is because the brass is being "over worked". In other words, you want to do the least amount of resizing that will allow adequate bullet tension and rechamber in your rifle.
With typical 375H&H loads you should easily get 10+ reloads per case. If you are not there is something wrong.
If you get case separation, the shoulder is set back too much.
If you get neck splits, the die and or expander need to be reworked or your collet die is not set up right.
Good Luck!

Wait now; is is a belted case which does not headspace on the shoulder unless you make it do so. Most dies will push the shoulder back so it does not touch if you FL resize. Still, resize the minimum necessary.

I beg to differ with some of you gentlemen:

1. As noted by Chad T, there is not much of a shoulder on the 375 H&H Magnum nor on the 300 H&H Magnum. Those are both cases that truely need the belt. I full length size mine but I doubt neck sizing for a bolt action gun would make for hard chambering and would probably improve case life.

2. I have full length sizer dies as well as a Lee Collet Die for my 375 H&H Magnum reloading. The collet die doesn't get used much. I get less than 1 MOA out of my handgun (about 1.5 inches at 200 yards) and even less from my rifle and that all without a special micrometer seating die. I think all the angst about special dies for hunting rifles is generally a waste of time especially if COAL is dictated by magazine length.

3. The advice posted by rnovi is good; especially the paparclip advice. How many loadings you get out of the brass depends on brass quality, the gun chamber as well as how hot the load is. I don't think 8 to 10 loadings is out of the question but it could be less.

4. The statement that a fired case will fit the chamber it was fired from with no resizing if the load is safe is simply not true. It would be most true in a bolt action gun but even then pushing back the shoulder every few reloadings will probably be needed even with what are safe loads in many guns.

If it were true that cases shot with safe loads would always fit the chamber they were shot in, then there would be not need to full length size for semiautos, pumps and lever actions. Try not full length sizing for those and let us know how it goes.

5. I wouldn't be too cavalier about case head separations. It's true that generally in a strong firearm they're no big deal but the hot gas probably damages the chamber a bit and having one also indicates reloader neglect in properly inspecting the brass before reloading.

6. Cartridge design can have a lot to do with case life. An example is the 22 Jet in which case life was very poor because of cartridge design.

When my rifle was still a H+H I FL Sized on every firing, the reason for this was due to neck sizing gave me inconsistent ignition, some of the energy from the firing pin was being used to squish the shoulder until the belt hit the chamber, this showed up as large variances in velocity with carefully measured charges.
This went away when I headspaced off the belt.
If you want consistency, FL size every firing, I was still getting 5+ loads from my brass, the biggest problem I had was loose primer pockets at that point, some brass lasted well beyong this too.

Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I beg to differ with some of you gentlemen:

1. As noted by Chad T, there is not much of a shoulder on the 375 H&H Magnum nor on the 300 H&H Magnum. Those are both cases that truely need the belt. I full length size mine but I doubt neck sizing for a bolt action gun would make for hard chambering and would probably improve case life.

Old wives tale. I have both .300 and .375 H&H rifles and need nothing other than neck-sizing for either. Once set to headspace on the shoulder case stretching (and thinning at the pressure ring) is largely arrested.

2. I have full length sizer dies as well as a Lee Collet Die for my 375 H&H Magnum reloading. The collet die doesn't get used much. I get less than 1 MOA out of my handgun (about 1.5 inches at 200 yards) and even less from my rifle and that all without a special micrometer seating die. I think all the angst about special dies for hunting rifles is generally a waste of time especially if COAL is dictated by magazine length.

Handgun? You must carry your gonads around in a wheelbarrow. At any rate, I agree that accuracy will be little impacted by the sizing method, only case life and case stretching.

3. The advice posted by rnovi is good; especially the paparclip advice. How many loadings you get out of the brass depends on brass quality, the gun chamber as well as how hot the load is. I don't think 8 to 10 loadings is out of the question but it could be less.

Agreed. I always "paperclip" brass of unknown origin or treatment.

4. The statement that a fired case will fit the chamber it was fired from with no resizing if the load is safe is simply not true. It would be most true in a bolt action gun but even then pushing back the shoulder every few reloadings will probably be needed even with what are safe loads in many guns.

If it were true that cases shot with safe loads would always fit the chamber they were shot in, then there would be not need to full length size for semiautos, pumps and lever actions. Try not full length sizing for those and let us know how it goes.

I made the assumption that the .375 H&H in question was not on a Model 94 Winchester or AR-15 action. The only time you'll have difficulty in placing a fired case right back in the chamber of a bolt rifle is when working with a load of unsustainable pressure. (Although there are instances of egg-shaped or chattered chambers, but that is a chamber problem, not an action or cartridge problem.)

5. I wouldn't be too cavalier about case head separations. It's true that generally in a strong firearm they're no big deal but the hot gas probably damages the chamber a bit and having one also indicates reloader neglect in properly inspecting the brass before reloading.

Agreed! I've had case head separations blow the extractor off of a strong bolt gun. They can not only be inconvenient, they can be dangerous.

6. Cartridge design can have a lot to do with case life. An example is the 22 Jet in which case life was very poor because of cartridge design.

Put a .22 Jet in a modern, front-locking bolt action and you'll find that the brass will last as long as any other if treated the same as any other. The action has more to do with case life than the shape of the case.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek: Old wives tale. I have both .300 and .375 H&H rifles and need nothing other than neck-sizing for either. Once set to headspace on the shoulder case stretching (and thinning at the pressure ring) is largely arrested.

Do I detect a little waffleing? "Largely" arrested? Also, it isn't only headspace involved in case stretch. It's also how much the case has to stretch to fit the particular chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek: Handgun? You must carry your gonads around in a wheelbarrow. At any rate, I agree that accuracy will be little impacted by the sizing method, only case life and case stretching.

I appreciate the gonad compliment.



It also shoots pretty well.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek: I made the assumption that the .375 H&H in question was not on a Model 94 Winchester or AR-15 action. The only time you'll have difficulty in placing a fired case right back in the chamber of a bolt rifle is when working with a load of unsustainable pressure. (Although there are instances of egg-shaped or chattered chambers, but that is a chamber problem, not an action or cartridge problem.)

I believe the original statement was that at safe pressures, the the brass of a cartridge would fit once again in the gun in which it was fired. No specification was made regarding the action of the gun nor of the particular carridge.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek: Put a .22 Jet in a modern, front-locking bolt action and you'll find that the brass will last as long as any other if treated the same as any other. The action has more to do with case life than the shape of the case.

Lightweights such as P. O. Ackley would disagree. While the action design is very important, so is case design. Also of great importance is cartridge to chamber fit. There has to be a reason why straight walled cases fired in a revolver have excellent case life while wildly tapered cases such as the 22 Jet have poor case life. In addition, even in the "modern, front-locking bolt action" guns of which you speak, you will not have as good case life from a tapered case as compared to a straight walled case all other things being equal and that would be because of case design.