That's it. We said the same thing, maybe. A 3" group around a point means to me anywhere within a 6" circle. A 3" diameter circle subtends a circle 6" across. The bullet can hit anywhere from 3" on the right to 3" on the left to 3" above to 3" below the point you are aiming at. Am I right? It really doesn't matter except to discuss and split hairs.

On another point; What is accuracy? It definitely is different to different people. How much you want and what you are willing to go through is the question to be answered. Ray's comments about one thousandth not meaning much makes me want to stay a long ways away from him when he is banging away. Anyone who has had to fit a part that is that far out knows just how much trouble it can be. That much can make a widow out of you wife or take away a loved one. But, it is all in what you think is acceptable.

I have to disagree with Zero Drift about the correlation between accuracy and run out. The BR boys know about it and are very concerned about runout. I have read many articles about runout and tested some of the presented data myself. Most of the time if I repeated the tests in the same manor, I got the same results. Controlling run out is how you stop those "fliers" that cause a good group to go bad. Just tonight I was going over some data on my 22-243 and checking the cases. One of the best loads put 3 in a hole measuring 0.190", but one went left and one went right. That opened the group to 0.650". Two of the cases had 0.004" runout, three had no runout. I use a Wilson neck sizer with a 0.252" bushing and it won't take out any runout so I resized then in a FL Redding custom die and the runout went away. I will test the load again come spring and I'll bet the group will be closer to 0.300". Again, this is nit picking, I very happy with the 0.650" group. It has a very low ES and SD and a bit 4000 fps, 52 Berger FB, CCI BR2, Fed Gold Medal, 42.5/Rl-15, seated about 20thou off.

Hey, we all have to decide what we want for ourselves. I listen and read, tune out the BS, put in my thoughts and experiences, but all the info and data I developed and collected was for ME, not anyone else. I paid the freight, did the tests and observed the results. I wasn't thinking about sharing it on the internet 40 years ago when I began loading. I don't really care whether anyone likes it or uses it, believes it or not, it never was for "THEM". An astute observer will understand this conundrum; "This is for you, if you have the sense to use it."

I think, for the most part, the information being presented, by everyone, is what that person believes to be the truth. The hardest part is to not defend a position but to be open to the mass of data being presented and use it or at least not dismiss it out of hand.