Looking at a once-fired Hornady case from my .25-06 Sako, I noticed that there is a small stretch ring about 1/8" forward of the case head, exactly like those I've seen in pictures of brass from rifles with excessive headspace. It doesn't look severe (not sure if I'd know what severe even looked like), but I'm wondering if I should try to adjust my FL sizing die upward a bit to try to correct for headspace.

I played around with the sizing die and this used case by backing the die out a half turn then resizing. The fired case chambered without any problem. Maybe I should have backed it out more.

Here's my real question: I'm about to run a new, unfired batch of Winchester brass through the FL resizing die. Is this upward adjustment of the die even meaningful for new brass, or should I adjust the die to touch the shell holder at full stroke? Is this something I play with once the brass has been fired? Is a stretch ring common with a factory rifle?

Never ever start out by turning the die down onto the shell holder and crank!
Start out a few turns shy of the shellholder then crank one thru, clean it and carefully try and chamber it. It will prolly be a little too long and the bolt won't quite close or close with force. Just turn it down a 1/4 or 1/2 turn and try again when it fits with the bolt closing with normal effort your set..lock it down crank another one thru and check it if it works like the last one your set to go now and resize the rest. If you can lock the lock ring to that setting, if not then figure out another way to refence it for your next time. But always check the 1st few for function before you do the batch.

As for new brass if it chambers right out of the box just size the neck only.
For fired brass follow the othter plan I gave you.

Hokie - "I played around with the sizing die and this used case by backing the die out a half turn then resizing. The fired case chambered without any problem. Maybe I should have backed it out more."

You are thinking, that's good. Now, let's think some more.

First, you need to understand how much you are changing the die with your adjustments. A full turn of a die changes a full 71 thousants of an inch (.071+ actually). Thus, a half turn means .0355 inches. A quarter turn moves it .0178 inches and that's about three times more change than headspace should be!

Normally, a rifles SAMMI headspace tolerance is a max spread of about .006 inches and that is covered, full range from minimum to maximum in only a shade more than 1/13th of a turn, meaning not much of a turn!

I center punch 16 marks around my size die lock rings and make my final adjustments in no more than a 16th of a turn. That still changes things .004 inches at the shoulder so sometimes I do it in half-mark spaces. For this critical die measurement on the case shoulders I use either an RCBS Precision Case Mik or a Stoney Point (now Hornady) case gage and dial caliper.

Moral; you are thinking right but you must move in VERY SMALL ADJUSTMENTS or you will grossly overshoot your goal.

That all makes sense...but I'm not sure what to do with these 100 rounds of new brass I have for my first-ever reloading operation.

Do I full-length size them with the die all the way down so that I have a consistent starting point from which to measure once fire-formed, or do I accept different shoulder dimensions and just neck-size the new brass, as was suggested by the previous poster.

I guess I understand how to proceed once I have fired brass, but it's the unfired brass that is confusing me at this point.

Hokie
If the new brass fits your chamber as is then just neck size it this time. This will help to prevent case stretch.
Once your brass is fired then go with the partial full length size, usually this involves sizing down just past neck sizing. Sets the case shoulder back a tiny amount ONLY.
If the shoulder is set back too much you will get seperations.
Usually its because your chamber is a bit long and the die is right down on the shell holder.

I guess I should of mentioned you neck size with a full length sizing die by setting the die up so that it only sizes the neck to the point where it joins the shoulder.
Good luck, and happy loading

Hokie,

You've received some good advise above, especially from JimC.

I do not normally Full-Length Size new brass - that is run the brass the entire way into a F/L Sizing Die when they are newly purchased.

Let me qualify......I've also never had an issue with new brass fitting the chamber of a rifle that I own. Each rifle chamber & Die Set is a Law unto itself. If new brass will chamber in your rifle then the initial step is already accomplished and you should not have to F/L size that batch of cases.

With new brass I normally inside lube (w/Lyman brush set & powdered graphite - there's other methods also, such as a Q-tip and Case Lube) the case necks and then only run the brass into the Die far enough to round out the case mouths; normally only far enough to pop the case mouths over the Die's Expander Ball.

To regress here, prior to this I've already diassembled the Die Set, both F/L Sizer & Bullet Seater and cleaned all the gunk outa them. While apart and before starting anything, I've polished the Expander Ball with a coupla drops of good oil and some Steel Wool (0000 or 00000 grade) or the finest grade (1000) sandpaper to get it butter-smooth to keep the chattering down. This only takes a coupla seconds with a Drill - if more you'll start polishing 1,000ths off the Exapnder Ball and we don't want it too small in diameter, either - just smooth.

The caveat or Watch-Out step after the case mouth rounding step is to ensure that the case, in comjunction with the bullet(s) you plan to reload have enough tension to firmly hold it/themselves in the case. Play, twiddle, fiddle around - attmept to seat the bullet with finger pressure, base first & head first. If they won't seat in the case (or even begin to) under normal finger/hand tension you're usually GTG.

The key to adjsuting your Dies with the cases for the best synergy in your rifle requires once-fired brass from the chamber of that particular rifle.

Now we know how much the fired case has expanded in both Length & Diameter in your rifle's chamber.

After the intial firing, set the Die up with (like has been mentioned above) with a coupla turns/twists ABOVE the Shellholder - it doesn't have to be much - just give it a good look-see and ensure there's a good 1/16"th between the Shellholder & the Die when the ram is all the way down/up. The Die/Die Ring set-up has to have firm contact with the Press but everything doesn't have to be tightened fully at this point, either, just firm, M'aam with enough play that you can start to turn the Die down as required.

Then lube the case, avoiding lube on the shoulder & case neck. Smoke the case neck by holding it directly in the flame of a candle for a flash and give it a twist to cover it all the way round - you'll see it blacken pretty quick. I prefer candle soot over a Magic Markerers (color - nonspecific) because the soot cleans off much-o easier but a Magic Marker works fine, too. Anyway, it'll get hot PDQ and if it gets too hot to hold and it's not blackened yet then you're not holding your tongue right - something's wrong.

With this Set-Up you'll easily see how much soot is removed from the case neck when it is inserted into the Die. Adjsut the Die from there - downwards until you've got the soot removed as close to the junction of the Neck/Shoulder as you can determine. I even use a good maginfyer for this - I want it right the first time. Then tighten everything up. With virtually every Set of F/L Dies (and there's 18 Sets on my Bench - all RCBS & 1 lyman Set) I've never had an issue with this easy method. I can attest though that if ANY lube is present or noticeable on Case Shoulders - I've usually created headspace and adjsuted too far down.

With this Set-Up you can hand tighten the F/L Die in the Press with firm enough hand pressure to keep it solid and always have the same setting, every time adjusted for your rifle.

When that is accomplished insert a Case in the F/L Die, Full-Length size it and then only back it off until the Expander Ball is firmly cenetered and positioned in the Case Neck, then loosen the Expander Ball Stem and re-tighten it. Now it is centered in the Case Neck. It too, is now adjsuted & centered for your Press/Die & Cases.

Whew!

This isn't the ONLY way to Adjsut Dies - there's others but it's worked for me for +4 decades and I've never had an issue either with outstanding accuracy, case longevity or feeding, either.

Oh, you asked about what to do with the original batch of Re-Sized Cases with what apears to be initial case separation marks - well, according to what you've described you've already created headspace and it'll only get worse with subsequent firings - I'd dump 'em and be one lesson wiser, sorry, pal. If you want to really see/feel if you've got the beginning of a case separation ring in the cases, either cut one open (in half or cut it off above the ring with a hacksaw) and take a gander; or take a Paper Clip, bend it straight and make a tiny hook at one end of it - you'll easily be able to feel the separation ring in the base of the case with the tip.

A lengthy Thread I know but thought I'd take the time this once.....

Have Fun with your Reloading.

If you use a feeler gage between the shellholder and the die you can get a
very accurate, repeatable setting.
Good Luck!

Hokie, size and load the rest of your new brass just as you have already done, it seems to be working fine so there's no reason to change in midstream. I doubt you have even moved the shoulder so far but you will after it's fired.

Thanks to all of you. You've been very helpful, and I really appreciate it. Turns out that I didn't have case separation, just a light expansion ring in the case (no valley of any kind inside). One last question, and I'll leave you alone....

I understand completely the detailed guidance that Gerry provided; however, if I have the Redding neck die, is that just as good, given that it's not supposed to bump the shoulder back when sizing, or should I stick with the method Gerry wrote about?

Hokie,

This may help you:
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=963106596#963106596

Hokie-H,

Don't ever leave us alone. Come back and relate all you've learned and experienced - that's what this website is all about!

Neck sizing is a pretty specialized type of re-sizing brass cases. It's great if your're shooting/working cases within 1,000th's from a Benchrest rifle, Rest and are located where all the tools of mankind are available to you to eleviate any mishaps that may occur.

Neck Sizing will eventually get you into BIG trouble if you are reloading for a rifle that will be used under the stress and not so sterile conditions of hunting in the wild, maybe not today but eventually.....

Have Fun!

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
Hokie-H,

Neck sizing is a pretty specialized type of re-sizing brass cases. It's great if your're shooting/working cases within 1,000th's from a Benchrest rifle, Rest and are located where all the tools of mankind are available to you to eleviate any mishaps that may occur.

Neck Sizing will eventually get you into BIG trouble if you are reloading for a rifle that will be used under the stress and not so sterile conditions of hunting in the wild, maybe not today but eventually.....

Have Fun!

So is the concern with a neck sizing die that eventually the shoulder is going to expand to the point where the case won't chamber, but with partial full-length sizing you're essentially sizing the case to fit each time?

quote:

Originally posted by Hokie Hunter:
So is the concern with a neck sizing die that eventually the shoulder is going to expand to the point where the case won't chamber, but with partial full-length sizing you're essentially sizing the case to fit each time?

I believe you've got it. FL (PFL) sizing is desired whenever feed reliability is an issue, like hunting.