We have been having a long running argument with what causes meat damage!
The argument goes something like this: you can't have a high velocity round and not expect meat damage! ok but what if you used FMJ instead of spire/ballistic/hp, etc there would be no meat damage just a small hole! so we would presume that bullet design causes meat damage and not velocity.
and what is hydro static shock, and how does it work?

many thanks in advance

griff

Hey'
If you use Ballistic type bullets,you will have more meat damage.I have switched back to non ballistic type bullets.I give up a little in grouping,but the end results are better.
1geejay
www.shooting-hunting.com

Yes and no to your spin in this. Meat danage is caused my hydrostatic shock which in the case of bullets is of very high puessure. It is caused because of the fact that a liquid for all intents and purposes can not be compressed like a gas. So when the bullet strikes the liquid contained in the animal's cell structure it receives this pressues and transmittes it to the liquid in the next cell and the next and so on until that pressure is dissipated by the mass of the animal. In the case of small animals the body mass can't control the pressure so it expoldes. Now for why I say YES AND NO. If you could punch say a deer in the ham you wouldn't see and "meat damage" until you could catch it skin it and see the bruse in the meat where you punched it (black eye). Same kind of danage just not as pronounced because the velocity is much lower but the liquid still can't be compressed. NOW if you could throw your fist into that deer at the same speed as that 7mm bullet you may get the same effect as the exploding PD, depends on if the animal's mass could control the pressure. So you see velocity does cause the damage but it dependes on how that velocity (pressure) is delivered. Got it?

Next tiem you are sitting in the tub with your little yellow rubber ducky, you can show yourself what hydrostatic shock is.

Pound your fist into the water...the harder you pound, the bigger the spash.

Next make different shapes with your fist...notice the different splashes?

Then slap the water with a flat hand...

Now, you know what different bullet design will do, and what hydrostatic shock is.

(If you ever get your hand moving at 3000 fps, you're in trouble!)

[ 08-14-2002, 15:34: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

Ricciardelli,
If I was in the bath and got my hand moving at 3000fps I WOULD BE IN TROUBLE!!!!!

Griff

I got my hand moving at 3000 FPS and thats why I'm a Turtle

I believe the whole idea of meat damage is way out of proportion. I have killed over half of my deer with a Shotgun Slug. 3" Mag no less. And if I hit it broadsided in the boiler room, I find the ribcage and spine protects the backstraps. I find the guts protect the hinds. And I am not too worried about the shanks really. I have seen deer shot with all kinds of guns and don't see all this appreciable meat damage people referres to. Unless you aim at the hams of the animal. Or if you shoot the animal right up the poop shoot. One friend even shot a doe broadsided with a 416 Rigby just to get blood on the gun before he went to Africa. Still was able to eat the backstraps and hinds.

I may be out of line here....but
Deer are not hard to kill.
A light weight bullet will cause meat damage.
So will a heavy weight bullet only less so.
Done deal.

I use ballistic tips launched at 3500fps and don't lose much meat at all.I do only use lung shots though as all shoulder shots do ruin a lot of meat.

I've shot a number of deer with 196gr bullets travelling at about 2525fps(at the muzzle), and meat damage has been minimal. On the other hand, I have a friend that swears by his 300 Win magnum and 150gr bullets. The meat damage is incredible, moreso if the animal is hit in the shoulders, which is generally where he hits them. Needless to say, the shoulders get thrown out. Too high a velocity, and too small a bullet of bad construction, a bad bad combination. Incidentally, he uses either Remington or winchester factory loads.

The picture of the bath and th fast hand Is a good way to explain things.
Speed is first to ruin meat.. If you compare two FMJ bullets, one fast one slow, the faster one will damage the most meat.
Then take two "hard" premium bullets like barnes X og Trophy bonded, one fast one slow..
the faster bullet will damage the most meat.
Take two softpoints hi explosive one the same will happend, only the booth explode with tremendous effect so the difference will not be as significant.
Take all this and you find that a faster bullet needs to be slow and restricted in mushrooming to not cause a lot of meat damage.
Personally I hate fast calibers for that reason.
Only thing they are any good for, is looong range hunting. (Big open country)
If you are hunting within 100 yrds. pick a slow caliber.
Robertson's book the "perfect shot" has some good points on the matter.

K&B
Niels

Oooups Looks like I had a sloppy hand on th keyboard. Sorry for any misspelling.