Another bad day at the range with my Ruger MK 77 mark 2 SS. I worked up some loads that were good last week only to have them scatter like a 12 guage. It has been the same thing for several weeks now, shooting different powder loads, bullets, primers and finding the one that finaly closes a good bit. Next week same bullets, cases, primers and powder from the same container and 2" groups show up. I have tried 5 different powders, 4 different primers, 4 different bullets in three different weights, partial sizing, full sizing, barrel floating, different bullet seating depths, had the rifle checked by an expert custom rifle maker, used two different scopes, made a sure enought solid rifle rest, took my time between rounds, shot holding my breath, squezzed the trigger, toook my glasses off, left them on, ect, ect, no change. A friend of mine brought his .223 he bought at a pawn shop and hulled out a 1" circle first thing. So I shot it and hulled out anouther 1" group. Not bad for a $75.00 rifle. Beside me Mr Lewis puts 8 out of ten through the same hole with his savage. Today I couldn't get a good 2 inch group. Last week I shot a .250, .625 and a .500. Man thought I had found the load. Today 2" plus.
I put it aside for awhile and am pondering what to do next. I paid to much for it to just sling it in the River and I guess it would make a good life time club in case someone breaks in as it wouldn't rust.

How did you get my gun out of my safe? I'd swear you were talking about my Stainless Ruger Mark II in 7 Mag.
I tried for two years to get some type of consistent load for it and the only bullet it will shoot MOA with is the 140 grain Barnes TSX. It's a one load gun.

Boy, does this ever sound familular. My All Weather was finicky too. Always 2 touching or damn near, and then the 1.5" flyer. It was a slayer though. Killed most of my game with it. It seemed to like 154 Hornady IL, 140 gr. Barnes XBT, and 160 XLC's the most.

Do you check loaded rounds for run out?

Do you use the same cases repeatedly for load development, issue being neck tension issues from work hardened brass.

Your gun has you chasing your tail in a circle, your mission is to find out why. My first GUESS is run out. Quit playing component roulette. If it does this for all loads(components), it ain't the load. Start with a clean sheet and stay on it until you figure it out.

Well first if you can get range time, I gather your area fared well thru Katrina...

If this load is chambering etc, just fine...I'd really check for something loose somewhere... ONLY way that such inconsistencies have happened with my rifles...

My Rugers are tack drivers....

What you may want to consider doing is shooting a batch of targets.. take the one's that really suck for group and send the targets and rifle back to Ruger... I did this on a Winchester Model 70 in 243....They replaced the barrel and bedded the action at the recoil lug and believe me it made a world of difference....

I have a 243 Remington ADL, that only likes fast powder loads, or loads that are way above SAAMI pressure specs... then it becomes a tack driver...Other wise anything else it throws them like a 10 yr old with a slingshot....

This rifle is just waiting around for me to figure out what I am going to rebarrel it too...
A heavy barreled 7/08 looks like a likely candidate....

Too bad you are far away, I actually like solving puzzles like this...Sending them back to the factory is usually a last resort for me.. like both the Winchester and the Remington described above, both had poor barrels from the factory...
Instead of scrapping a rifle like that, via Q/C.. they normally just earmark them for somewhere like Walmart..
the Remington was bought at Walmart, and the Winchester was bought at Mills Fleet and Farm back in Minnesota...Both on sale at cheap prices...The actions were both worth more than I paid for the rifles in each instance.. so I don't have much to complain about...But I am sure the average guy who buys rifles at those places.. does not know the difference, or are the type that shoots one box of ammo a year... thinks he hits the target twice before season and he and the rifle are ready to go...

Good luck with her....
Glad to see you and your family survived Katrina well...

cheers
seafire

My all weather 300 win did the same thing for a year. I floated the barrel and worked up a load it liked 71.4 gr IMR4350 with the 189 gr Accubond . It will hold MOA now, also likes TSX, but I don't like the fouling.

It's a plastic stock. I laugh when they call it a "synthetic". Take your barreled action off and tape a wooden broom handle onto the black paddle stock and give it to the neighbor kid to play with. Then go buy yourself a nice wood stock.

Elkman, it will hold MOA with how many shots? Try firing 5 or more and we shall see if this MOA myth holds true.

My 7 mag is in the laminate stock, I had the action pillar bedded and glassed in, the barrel recrowned, tried two different brands of dies, two scopes, etc. It's real particular, with 160 - 175 grain bullets it shoots honest 4" 3 shot groups. I can get 130 grain Hornady's under two inches and the 140 grain TSX's to .7-.8" three shot groups.

quote:

Originally posted by Blob1:
Another bad day at the range with my Ruger

'nuff said. Wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that, I'd buy another Sako!


that ought to get things stirred up

Best advice I can give you is to call Lilja, Kreiger, Obermeyer, PacNor, Douglas, Shilen, etc. and solve your Ruger problems once and for all. Sometimes a hammer forged barrel can be as accurate as a cut or buttoned barrel, but often its not. If they were the above mentioned firms wouldn't fare so well in business. You've got this much invested, so go ahead and get it right.

Been playing with a new ruger 77 in 30-06 this last week. guy who owns it gets about 6" groups with a variety of ammo. He had it to a gunsmith who freefloated it , no improvement. changed scopes, same thing. brought it to me to shoot it so he could know wether it wasn't just him. No much better with me shooting it, got 5" groups instead. Changed out the scope to a proven one, no change. Took it apart, bedding looks ok but glass bedded it anyway, no change. Took the borescope and looked, crown looks good, barrel looks really good, chamber and throat look really good. Trigger is horrible but shot many with triggers like that and get better groups.Played with tension on action screws, no change. tried different bullet weights powders and primers nothing shot any good. Felt so bad for this guy I didn't charge him anything and told told him to take it back and trade it. Ruger 77's are a pain in the ass, some shoot but so many of them don't.

Yeah wish I had know all this when I bought this thing. I have reloaded several calibers before and never had this trouble. I think I will try Ruger. I had an expert custom rifle maker who is superb in his work and he said eveything was great, you know head space, rifling, crown, bolt slide spacing, etc. This gun makes marine sniper rifles and the snipers come and try them out so he knows his stuff. But what gets me is last week I shot 7 shots in a 1.625 horizonal line with 2 through the same hole, three through the same hole and two through the same hole along the 1.625 line. Well this week 2 to 2.5 groups with same load. Have annealed the necks also. I finally found some Federal 7MM /08 cases and made some .260 from them to try Federal cases. Have to do the same with Winchester as they don't make .260 cases. Man I can pull out the old wore out model 7400 30/06 and shoot constant 1.5 with it!
But have wasted a lot of time and money to be still in the dug out not even up to bat yet. But I 'll let it sit awhile and use the old rifle for deer hunting. Will call Ruger tomorrow
Yeah the plastic stock really sucks but right next to me a man shooting a savage with a plastic stock drives them in on top of one another. I may have to go to an 85 grain bullet and try that.

And like you said, all different powders, bullets and primers shoot the same eratic patterns.

Blob1,

Before you send it back, try a box of factory ammo. I've had good luck with Federal, but any quality ammo will do...Also, when/how do you clean the barrel? Some rifles shoot their best groups with a clean barrel while others are just the opposite..

Regards,

Pete

Pete e I always use a foam cleaner after each trip to the range. I keep the barrel real clean. I have tried Remington factory ammo in 140 and 120 and both scattered also. Nothing is loose on the rifle either. Just after the custom gun maker checked it all out and mounted the 6.5 x 20 scope I shot it and checked everything real good. It just will not shoot any consistant pattern at all.

Also sometimes I spend 1/2 day at the range shooting sometimes 60 rounds and from number 1 to number 60 it is the same. Example: 43.5 grains H4350 shot .0750 one day and 2 " the next. 26 grains 2400 shot .0750 one day and 3" the next. It will not shot two of the same loads anywhere close. I even shot a 1" group with three rounds, left the range and loaded up 5 more came back and 1.750 was the best it would do. What a mess!

I had a Remington .375 H&H, Classic. Same thing, it shot patterns not groups. Tried everything, stocks, bases, rings, scopes, pillar bed, free float, full bed, re-crown. Sold it with the truth about the rifle. The new owner tried everything I tried and 10lbs. of powder later, he knew I told him the truth. New barrel and it shoots great, for him!

Blob:
If you plan to shot the thing once a year and a box of ammo will last you 5 or 10 years keep the Ruger. I know you are a shooter so cut bait and run like hell. Go buy yourself something that shoots.

I would shoot it over a lead sled to take the people part out of it.

Had to laugh at that one holer, as it is time to cut bait and run! I could spend another 500 -600 dollers and might get it right but not worth it to me so a trade is in sight. But I am going to bug Ruger just to see what they say. I can shoot pretty good and was trying to work up a load so I could use it once a year. But I am not going through a million pounds of powder and a 55 gallon drum of bullets trying to get it right. It is not me as I can shoot other rifles just fine. I have been shooting since I was 6 years old and I am now 61 so know when I pull off or twist the rifle at times.(as we all do at times) I am shooting a lot now just trying to get s load that is consistant. When I shoot a lot I use my .223. I can load up a bunch of loads for it. And then to see some really good 75-100 yard groups to offset this mess I shoot my 22 magnum, dime covers out to 75 and 25 rounds at 100 a quater covers all. The the old 7.7 jap shoot 1.5 groups. I think I will shoot my magnum this week to offset the range blues. I

I just remembered I need a good paddle for my boat and it won't rust much-hummmm! Got to go to a gun show soon and trade it.

Blob:
What are you bitching about. Your gun meets Rugers Quality control standards for accuracy. If you call Ruger they will tell you that their "standards" are 1.5" three shot group at 50 yards with Federal Match ammo.
I never saw that sign at any of the gun stores.
Run Forest Run!!!!!!

Not trying to be a smart ass, seriously, but clean the barrel and I mean clean it good. If it still won't shoot I'll give you 275.00 for it less scope. I love a challange, I have yet to be burned on these " Rugers that won't shoot ". I would like to try to make it shoot.........JJ

I am going to go in an entirely different direction, Blob. I know you are an experienced shooter and loader, so here's hoping I don't insult you by suggesting something you have already tried...

I would cut two shims, one for the area just behind the recoil mortise and one for the rear receiver tang. I use .015" brass. Insert the shims and shoot a group. What this does, and I am sure you know, is artificially free-float the barrel. Then, if it works, the shims stay. If not, they are easily pulled with no permanent change to the stock. (I know you have already tried this, but thought I would suggest another way of doing it...)

If that doesn't work, take a piece of notecard stock and fold it to several thicknesses. Use it to put a pressure point on the barrel about an inch back from the forend. Then shoot a few groups. Some barrels like a pressure point, and Remington used to make sure there was one in all their stocks...

And lastly, assuming the rifle has a box magazine, make sure it isn't touching the floorplate when the action screws are torqued down tightly. If the mag box is caught hard between the bottom of the action and the underside of the floorplate, the action isn't tight in the stock, and it is going to move around with every shot.

I have had all three of these problems show up at one time or another, and here's hoping the result of one of them is what you are seeing. It would be a shame to trade it off if it is fixable. I am not a Ruger fan, but it is hard to believe something that shoots that badly ever made it out of the factory.

Doubless:
I like the one about the box magazine and floorplate. This one is very worth looking into.
This simple point is overlooked countless times.

I shot the rifle with the presure point that ruger put it at first and got 3" groups with factory ammo and reloads. Right now the barrel has 1/4 inch cut away all around it. May try the shims as nothing to loose and check the mag and floor plate. But all I have said about this is completly true and no on ecan bullshit me into thinking that 2-4 inch groups are the standard for Ruger when I hav eseen others shoot less than 2 inches a t 200 yards out of the box. I am not complaining just to blow hot wind or to run down Ruger. Just trying to figure out why it is so erattic. I

And then a host of others come forth with the same problems. I shoot 1.5 with my old 30/06, 1.5 with my old 7.7 Jap, 1 inch with my 22 mag, and 2 inch with my wore our 22. Shot .750 with my bull barreled Remington .223 and still shoot 1.750 with my old 1952 30/30. Even popped off a 4 inch round with my 22 magnum Derringer from 75 yards. But this rifle will not shoot any consistant group no matter what. three shot s may be 2",3" and 2.500 then 1.000, 2" and a 4 inch flyer. Is this Ruger's recomendatiion? No hardley. Might trade for a new 22/250.

It's obvious that you've tried many different things. One thing I noticed is your cleaning regimen. Possibly, your barrel may be too clean. None of my very accurate rifles like a clean barrel !! Put about 20 rounds through it and then check the accuracy. It's also possible from all the cleaning that you may have nicked the crown. Take a good look at that. If all else fails (I know I'll catch some crap for this), try the Tubbs Final Finish system. You really have nothing to loose at this point. Hope you get things sorted out. By the way, what caliber is it ???

I can't even shoot 2" consistant groups at 50 yards, let alone 100. Going to ruger with this and if that don't work I will do away with it for good.

My offer still stands to buy it........JJ

CHECK PARALLAX

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Blob1:
Another bad day at the range with my Ruger


'nuff said. Wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that, I'd buy another Sako!


that ought to get things stirred up

You can say that again!

Reloader

quote:

I'd buy another Sako!

Or Two (2) Savages.Buy some beer with the change.

Do try Ruger Customer Service before you trade it off. Give them a chance to make it right. I'm anxious to hear how they treat you/your gun.

Blob:
Since you are a Ruger owner I'm sure you have heard the one about Rugers shoot better dirty than clean. Seems to be some truth in that one for many of the guns such as yours. Some of the bores are oversize especially up towards the muzzle end. Get your measuring stick out and take a look. Before I get hate mail I really do like Rugers. I think they make one of the best .22 rifles and pistols on the market. Hell I even own 4 or 5.

Bigimbass:
I have a .308 stainless that had a paddle stock on it. Same exact story as poor old Blob. I had a love/hate with this one for 4 years and finally it was throw it in the pond of fish habitat or fix it. The plastic stock was getting more and more flexible was every year passed. The thing was turning to jelly. Called the lady in charge of Customer service and she mailed a new piece of beautiful walnut to see if this fixed the problem. Now it shoots 2 inch groups. It had been shooting 8" groups so I'm not touching the fool thing. Rugers make good hunting rifles but they sure as hell will never be bench guns.

Folks let me clarify something. I am not against Ruger at all. This is the first one I have ever owned. I am a Remington man mostly. I am not bitching about Ruger, downing Ruger, cussing Ruger, just trying to figure out what to do with it next. It is the first rifle I ever owned that will not shoot consistant groups at all and we are talking about some 4-6 inch groups. I had a custom gun maker who makes Marine sniper rifles check it out and as far as parts fitting, etc, it is perfect. Yes I fell for the plastic stock, never again will I do that. So a call to Ruger is in order and them maybe a new wood stock. I always used wood before and had goog luck. Look if this thing would hold even an awful 2 inch group I would say ok. But it is 2 inch then 4 inch then 2.5 with 5 inch flyers, etc, etc. I am not trying to make a bench rifle out of this, I would use my bull barreled .223 for that, just trying to get a constant group. If the wood stock works guess what I will use as a plastic target for my shot gun! For those that understand the frustration and are trying to help-thanks! For those smart asses who sale themselves as experts but are really adolesent idiots, I don't need your childish critiism. Thanks folks got to go call Ruger!

Blob:
For all of us Ruger owners that have experienced what you are going through---we feel your pain. I have to admit though, it sure as hell is great when it happens to someone else and not you.

Blob1

Just looked at another thread you posted, are you sure you are keeping everything in an orderly manner? It appears you are not being exactly methodical in your preparation. This could be a very important reason that your balistic performance is less than satifactory.
See below, not sniping but it looks to me as if there might be a relationship with your accuracy problems.

Qoute:
Just wondering if anyone else had run into this. I loaded some once shot cases with Winchester Large rifle primers, placed them in a small plastic bag as I do all my different loads, and placed them in my padded carring bag. When I got to the range and was going to shoot the load with the winchester primer one was out of the case in the bottom of the bag. When I got home I measured the primer pocket and they were ok and I loaded some Federal primers which loaded with the normal feeling. then I started measuring the Winchestr primers and some were .001-.002 smaller than Federals, CCI and Remington.