The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Can't get my Kimber 270wsm to shoot, any suggestions?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have a Kimber Montana 270WSM that I am getting 1.5-2" groups with every load I try. I have used both 140 TSX and Accubonds, tried H1000, Retumbo, and Mag Pro. I use Federal Mag Primers, Winchester brass. I have tried changing overall length from 2.76 to 2.875. The barrel is free floated, and I also tried putting a paper shim near the tip of the forearm for pressure. I was able to get 1" groups with ballistic tips, but I want a tougher bullet for hunting. I love the gun, but won't be happy until I can get a 1" group. What can you suggest? thanks | ||
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I would run a couple of boxes of different factory loads in 130 gr and 150 gr through it and see how it performs. I agree, a rifle that costs as much as a Kimber should produce at least 1 inch groups. If it still did not meet my expectations, I would have a good gunsmith take a look at it. Sadly, from what I hear, Kimber doesn't seem to be interested in what their customers have to say. This coupled with the fact that are having serious issues with quality control has steered me away. | |||
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I have a buddy with a 300WSM Kimber it gave him fits too he finally shot some Sierra bullets and it likes them, He is not very pleased with the rifle, | |||
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hammertime I know that you would like to shoot the TSX, But you may end up useing A bullet that your rifle like the best. That is unless you can live with the group size's that you are getting. keep working on it, and keep talking to people about it. You will hit on some thing. That's what reloading is all about. Why do you think that Ballisiticans all have gray hair. 6.5 SWEDE | |||
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Send back if it doesn't shoot. Kimber changed out a barrel on a friends .260 because it was grouping about 3". It shoots about 1.25" now. I've from a couple of others that they rebed the front recoil lug and their guns REALLY shoot. I think my buddy's would do better if he would bed the action (wood stock), but he says he's content. | |||
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Bed the action. Lighten up the trigger pull. Put the best glass your pocketbook will allow on it. Try somewhere beteen 60 and 61gr of IMR-4350 with your favorite 130gr projectile. If it does not shoot after that, you have a problem. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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Both of my Kimber 8400 270 WSM's shoot 1/2 MOA with RL-22 and 140gr Accubonds. On one of them the floorplate needed bedding because the magazine box was binding you might check that on yours. I have a freind whose Kimber 270 WSM shot much better after he recrowned it. If I were you I'd try RL-22 and 140gr Accubonds after checking the mag box and crown...............DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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Since the rifle will shoot 1" groups with BC's it might do as well or better with other bullets. It only takes one thing to mess up accuracy but it could be more than one thing. Keep in mind that it's a hunting rifle and getting the barrel red hot is only testing red hot barrels. Check for something loose. Change the scope. Aim better. Try factory loads. Get the trigger pull right. I have seen all sorts of stuff with rifles from long magazine boxes so it was bedded on that to screws that bottomed out, barrels that touched the stock etc. It took me a long time to discover that the crown was off on my 270 WSM Montana. Thats a heck of a nice rifle now. It shoots the 140 Accubond over RL22 very well. By the way the 140 kills deer just like that. Perhaps your hunting bigger game however. I understand. Join the NRA | |||
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You say the ballistic tips shot 1" for you, what was the distance to the lands with these? Did you try the other bullets at the same distance? I would take the lenght to lands of the ballistic tip that shot well and load a 5 rds to that lenght with one of the other bullets and 5 each at 0.010", 0.005", -0.005" and -0.010" from that lenght and see if the groups tighten. I find the lenght to the leade is often the deciding factor in my load accuracy. The OAL to the leade needs to be within a specific range or groups go wild with some rifles. Also let the barrel cold fully between groups. The Kimbers have light wgt tubes and heat quickly. I give mine about 10-15 minutes between groups, depending on the temp. ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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Everybody has their own game plan but I glass bed actions and float barresl before starting the load process. Any loseness in the action or recoil lug must be corrected before going forward in my opinion. You can't tell how much play is there either so you beat your brains out till you bed the thing and then things start working. Have fun choosing your game plan. | |||
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Hammertime, some good tips here, I would really second 'Ol Joe's advice on seating depth. It is important with the 2 bullets you are wanting to get to shoot for sure, especially the TSX. I have a friend who has the same rifle, and it was good and tight all around (read no binding or loose screws) and he had fits getting it to sub 1" at 100 til he started backing a fairly long way off the leade with his bullets--the same 2 you are working on. He is something like 65-80 thou off, and then depending on powder charge, either the AB or TSX will shoot really nice. I have also found that is common for the WSM's--especially the .270 WSM, seem to like less than full power loads. Kind of defeats the purpose of going to that cartridge for extra powder capacity (if that's one of your reasons for shooting that cartridge) but I have seen several 270 WSM's get to behavin' better with loads at the minimum charge a lot quicker. Good Luck getting her to shoot. | |||
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I have kept the barrel cool, been shooting this winter and taking it slow. When I shot this morning it was -3, so it cooled down quickly. The trigger is fine, I have a Leupold VX-III 3.5X 10, and I am using a good rest. The bedding looks good, they come glass bedded from the factory. I can slip a dollar bill under the barrel so I know it is free floated. I do have some 4350 so I can try that. Maybe try some RL-22. How do you check the crown, just have it redone and see if it makes a difference? Thanks for the help guys. | |||
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from what I understand Kimbers are not the greatest shooting rifles around. The Nosler Bt may be a little tougher than you give it credit for. don't give up, keep trying. A man should never stop learning, so a man should never stop asking questions | |||
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OH how I feel your pain ! After lots of studying I broke down and bought a Kimber custom select 270 WSM about 6 months ago. All the posts over at short mags as well as other material really talked the Kimber up. Man was I sick when I couldn't get mine to shoot worth a crap!! I tried 140 gr. AB's, 130 gr. partitions,and 130 gr. scirroco II's with various charges of Imr 7828 ssc, Imr 4831, H 4350 , AA4350 , Magpro, and RE19.Plus tried different seating depths from -.005 to -.030. as well as WLRM, CCI 250 , and Fed 215 M primers. Every now and then I would get something to tease me thinking it was going to shoot but I couldn't duplicate my load. Everyone said Kimber had great customer service and would take care of it. I called them and they said all they guaranteed was that the rifle would shoot 1 1/2 " moa with factory ammo. I pretty much told them that I wish I had known this before I shucked out a grande of my hard earned money for there rifle. None the less it didn't cost me anything so I sent the rifle back. I got it back within 2 weeks with 2 nice little 1/2 " clover leah targets and a note saying we shot these groups at 50 yds in a high dollar rest with a mechanical air trigger release(no doubt in a indoor range). WHOOPE! So next I tried the 140gr Sierra hpbt with sierra's listed most accurate load of 63.1 grs of RE19 .025 off the lands. This load will shoot under 1" moa all day long with .25" not unuasual. The Sierra isn't my bullet of choice at 3100 fps. , but is the only thing I've found as yet to shot better than 1 1/2 " to 3 1/2 " groups. Don't give up yet someone told me the kimbers would shoot they were jusy picky as he#$. | |||
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If you keep chasing your tail in circles, try switching to a flatbased bullet rather than the boattails. Some rifles simply hate boattails, but love flatbased bullets. Some hate flatbased, but love boattails. I also agree with the glassbedding as preliminary to shooting. With a good glassbedding job done properly, you can eliminate some possibilities for bad accuracy right off the bat. Of course, you'll be out $135 or so more, unless you can glassbed rifle stocks. Good luck ... Tom Purdom | |||
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I was tempted to get a new Montana in 300WM to replace my slightly heavier Kimber 89 Supergrade in the same caliber but with all of the complaints with the 8400 model I think I am going to pass. $1000 rifles should not have these issues and light barrels being warm/hot and shooting poorly is BS. If the bbl is of high quality and floated and the action has proper bedding you should be able to shoot a very tight and acceptable 3 or 5 shot group with it. I would not go nuts trying to get the damned thing to shoot...I would send it back and let their technicians deal with it. I certainly would not keep a gun that only shot well with bullets I did not care to use. I think the Kimbers and the short mags in general are highly over-rated. JMHO. | |||
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Woodrow: I agree and disagree. I personally think the WSM's especially the 270 WSM have some real merit. I totally agree the Kimbers are really overated. I only wish all the problems had surfaced before I bought mine. The moderator over at "short mags" and I really disagreed over the Kimbers. He insisted that the $$$'s you were spending on the Kimber was made up in features not accuarcy. I contend thats BS for $1000 I expect moa or less (with more than sierra's) !! | |||
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Hammertime: I suggest you use the fine Nosler Ballistic Tips in your 270 WSM! I use them out of my 270 Winchester and have not only splendid accuracy but very pleasing lethality! I have killt many Mule Deer, Antelope, Whitetailed Deer and one Elk now with these bullets! My ratio of one shot kills is about 100%! I could care less how tough a bullet is - I want it to expend all its energy in the boiler room (heart/lung area!) of the Game I shoot! The Nosler 130 gr. Ballistic Tip does this VERY well! Good luck with the Kimber I personally think your "problem" was already solved! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy | |||
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If the Bt's are the only bullet you can get to shoot then you have a decision to make. It's my opinion that bt's are great bullets for whitetail size game at 308, 06, 270 etc. velocities. However when you start pushing them in excess of 3000 fps. your asking for trouble. If you ever hit the shoulder your not going to be happy. Just read all the post on bt failers at magnum velocites on all the various forums. | |||
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Rifle testing is not all that easy. As I mentioned some factors could be multiple and occur at random. Some other things that I did not mention before are to clean the barrel really well. Just some copper solvent may not do it. I would use a compound as well and do all over twice. As to the crowns I have really got into that topic in the last few decades. I still can't tell if a crown is good or bad by looking at it. Of course obvious damage is easy to see. Here is the link to crowns at AR. Keep tabs on this and other threads here on that topic. Crown link There are many other treads on crowns also. A dollar bill is not enough clearance thickness according to some. I measured the clearances on my 8400 270 WSM and while it was even when the rifle was new it was not after a year? I filed some in the channel. Can't say this was the cure. That scope may not be perfect just cause it's a Leu. However loose mounts are a bigger problem usually. To be frank I have no confidence that the X bullets will expand all the time. For sure I know they foul barrels fast. I would use other bullets for a while. If it will shoot Partitions then thats a bullet that you can fall back on. I shoot 140 Accubonds over RL 22 as I and DJ may have mentioned. Good luck and stay in touch. We find something in the last place that we look. Join the NRA | |||
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So you went and bought a 6 lb rifle that shoots consistant MOA groups with occasional 1/4" groups thrown in. Yea Kimbers are so overrated. I'd bet Kimber wishes that people like you with such ridiculous expectations would buy someone elses rifles instead of bothering and badmouthing them............................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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sell it | |||
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I prefer to take a scientific approach and start isolating some variables. 1) thoroughly clean the rifle 2) Buy three brands of factory ammo, try all of them 3) use sand bags not sure becuase I am not sure what you mean by a "good rest" is Now this is the one that is gonna piss you off. 4) Have somebody else shoot the rifle 5) Remove the current bases and rings and remount a different scope. FYI, I strongly prefer dual Leupold dovetail tingsscope and replae with a different scope... You might be surprised at what you find... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Be carfull sending your fine gun to Kimber..First hand experience here brother. Three years ago I bought a 84M 7mm08 it punched holes in paper about 3 1/2" @ 100 I called cust service they said send it back. 3 weeks go by and in the mail to my local gun shop comes my gun with new wood and a crown job on the barrel that looked like it was done with a hand drill. My wood that was on the gun was great!!!! The wood they sent me was just O.K. the gun did shoot better but only about 2". I spent many hours on the phone with kimber and was told there was a bedding problem and it was more ecconomical to bed a new stock than re-work mine and that mine was thrown away..I sent it back again!! 3 weeks went by my gun came back with a letter stateing to NOT send this gun back Kimber Arms will not put any more time into this rifle and make no claims of any accuracy...All centerfire guns are test fired for functionabilit only. It goes without saying I will not buy another.....By the way the shop I got the gun from no longer sells them because the owner said he can't deal with the Kimber cust. service and after haveing about 20% of his cust. not happy with the centerfire rifles he cut them off. However he did say he has litle to no returns on 1911 pist. and nobody ever brought bake one of the .22 he said. In short don't send it back work with your loads you'l find one in time. Oh my avatar picture to the left is the above for-mentioned rifle good luck bro ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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The problem with changeing mounts is your forced to use Kimber mounts. These are top shelf mounts however. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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One thing that nobody has mentioned is mainspring pressure! If the firing pin impact is too light, you will NEVER get the gun to shoot. | |||
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You already have Magpro and 140 Accubonds. Use enough Magpro to give about 3150 fps (about 70 gr). What I have found with the .270 WSM is that generally, they like the bullet at least .050" off the lands. My load puts mine at .070" and the gun shoots .25 MOA.I also use Federal primers. Elite Archery and High Country dealer. | |||
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I would disagree about Kimber having a bad reputation. This is the first thread I've seen where their accuracy was an issue at all. I can only speak for my .308 Montana, but it shoots and shoots well, even with several different bullets. No bad results yet. I will also echo the posters who are seeing best results with the triple shock seated deep. My .280 really came around at .080 off the lands. I would try RL22 and the triple shock. Work up at .050 off the lands until you hit low S.D. numbers and then seat progressively deeper. As to the crown, look at the muzzle and observe the pattern left by the escapeing gases. The soot marks should be exactly equal in width and length. If they are not, I would bet a pocket full of cash that that is the issue. Gabe Pa to three sons Sambone 5 Catcher 3 Heebies 1 Husband to one wife the Cluck | |||
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If you can get 1" groups with ballistic tips you'll get 1" groups with accubonds, the exact same load but just swapping the ballistic tips for the accubonds normally works perfectly with the accubond going down the same hole as a ballistic tip but just make sure they are seated to the same depth as the difference in batchs varys 5thou. I can tell you that my kimber barrel was rough as guts. the bore looked like metal was flaking off it and i was having a hard time getting to to shoot under 2" for 3 shots at 100 yards. 200 odd rounds later and i have a load that it will consistantly shoot under half inch and ive done several .3s with it. only done one 300 yard group that was 1.5" also i had to free float my barrel, it was touching at the muzzle and at other random places + it also hates federal primers. all being said I wouldnt buy another kimber, I believe they are too expensive for what you get. | |||
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I too find my Kimber does much better then 2"-3" @ 100 yds. Mine is a 84M in 260 and not a 8400 but I don` thing it would make much difference in inherent accuracy. Here are couple of examples of the accuracy I get from mine. These are not the best loads but are representative of the norm for this rifle with most loads. BTW the rifle is exactly as I bought it, I haven`t even played with the triggers factory setting. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/1Savage/100_0952.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/1Savage/100_0950.jpg ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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Old Joe While those groups are not bad, I would say they are less than stellar for a $1000 + rifle. Any cheapo Savage off the shelf from wally world could easily produce those groups, usually better IMO. I just expect more for the money. | |||
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Kimber 8400 FW 270 WSM 100yds:  Kimber 8400 270 WSM #2 at 200 yds:  Kimber 325 WSM 100yds 4 different loads including factory load:  Kimber 8400 7 WSM 200 yds Factory ammo:  Kimber 8400 FW 300 WSM, 1st 3 shot group through the rifle! 100 yds:  5 different Kimber 8400's in 4 different Calibers. Kinda makes me wonder when someone says their Kimber won't shoot how much is the Kimber and how much is the shooter and the ammo he reloads................................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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I know a guy who does load development for a living, also owns a hunting shop with the largest ammount of reloading gear ive seen in the one shop. he is the best F-class shooter down here in NZ and placed 7th when he went to canada in a F-class comp. He told me he has never got a kimber to group well. now dont say it wasnt the shooter thats the problem. not too sure how many kimbers he has done the load development for. all he could say was "rough barrels" | |||
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No big surprise. Kimbers don't shoot any better than standard production rifles. Sometimes you get a good one, sometimes not. For their price, the factory should up the quality control. You probably have a better chance of getting a new Savage that groups better. No joke. "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill | |||
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BS. How many Kimbers have you owned and shot and how many other brands have you compared them too? I seriously doubt you've shot enough different Kimbers and other rifles to make a serious comparison...................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Can't get my Kimber 270wsm to shoot, any suggestions?
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