Just finished a mauser action with a Midway Adams & Bennett SS fluted barrel. I "did it all right with this one (no shortcuts), and I want to firelap the barrel before I get serious with it.

Anyone have any experience with Fire lapping? Can you recommend a specific product and point me to a supplier?

Thanks

Search the old posts.

I , and many others, don't think it is a good idea. It will trash the throat. I would give it a good scrubbing with JB and shoot it. If it refuses to shoot maybe try the abrasive bullet process before you throw it away. If you want a rifle that shoots well the Adams and Bennet barrel was a mistake. If you are learning gunsmithing as you go, and want a minuet of deer barrel it is probably going to be fine.

I agree with scot,fire lapping will cause throat erosion,wich is not a good thing,I was interisted in doing the same thing but after reading the posts from shooters that have alot more exsperence than me I decided against doing it,I heard that if you were to look at the results with a bore scope you would cringe at what you would see.

Thanks guys,

This was a first time, el-cheapo, let's-see-if-I-can-do-it project. The 1917 Danzig action was a freebee and I didn't want to ruin an expensive barrel on my first project!

I did the Barrel & Stock, gunsmith trued action, installed trigger and saftey, and drilled and tapped.

I talked with several guys on several forums, anmd they stated they had better than expected results with A&B barrels, but they needed about 500 rounds or so through them before they settled down and about half said theirs fouled quickly.

When I finally finish the stock and shoot the thing, you guys will know whether I made a mistake or not. My ego is well under control and I'm not afraid to admit it when I screw up.

Shooting abrasives down a barrel is not, in my opinion, a very good idea. And that opinion is shared by many custom barrel makers.

Normal firing and excellent cleaning are all that is required.

Bad, bad bad. If you have too, use JB's and hand lap it. I ruined a good 300RUM barrel with Firelapping. All I wanted was less copper fouling. Ended up making a .5MOA gun into a 1.5MOA gun.

Just a suggestion go here, http://www.beartoothbullets.com/ and get the Technical Manual book on cast bullet shooting (look around you�ll find it). There is a big section on slugging your bore and hand lapping and fire lapping with dead soft lead lapping slugs. Will tell you all you want to know and more and how to do it. I figure if the guys here don't know for sure no one does. Below is an ecerpt from the Tech Manual.

Fire lapping very basically involves shooting a soft, BHN 11, oversize bullet impregnated with a high grade lapping compound through the bore of your firearm at airgun velocities. These abrasive bullets act like self conforming lapping plugs which incrementally remove constrictions in the barrel, uniform it dimensionally and smooth out the tooling and chatter marks in the rifling. Complete fire lapping step by step instructions may be found in the fire lapping chapter in the Beartooth Bullets Technical Guide.
In virtually all firearms it will either greatly reduce or totally eliminate both barrel leading and jacket fouling by smoothing out the tooling marks left in the barrel by the equipment used in barrel manufacture and by easing the sharp corners and edges inside the bore which collect fouling.
In most guns, there will be at least a modest increase in accuracy potential, to often times dramatic improvement in accuracy from increasing the uniformity of the bore dimensionally, and eliminating the constrictions which are common under dovetails in barrels, and barrel bands.
Especially in revolvers where the threaded barrel shank is screwed into the frame of the revolver, dramatic improvements in performance may be achieved. This is particularly true where cast bullets are used in the revolver, because the constriction under the threaded barrel shank (which can be from .002"-. 004" depending on make and caliber), acts like an undersize, bullet sizing die, thus sizing the bullet down under barrel groove dimension, creating an improper bullet to barrel fit. Not only does this condition deteriorate accuracy; it also promotes barrel leading. Fire lapping, properly done eliminates this conditionan.
Finally, fire lapping often times increases the nominal velocity achieved with a given load. This is accomplished by a reduction in the friction coefficient of the barrel. Lapping out even a small portion of the tooling marks in a barrel will reduce the friction coefficient of the barrel, at least to some extent.
Order the Beartooth Bullets Technical Guide for in-depth Information and Step-By-Step instructions on this procedure.
A note of caution
You will notice that the first paragraph about fire lapping specified the use of soft BHN 11 oversize bullets. There is a reason for this. The soft bullet will conform and swage down to the tightest part of the barrel, and not "spring back" to near original diameter due to its softness. Thereby the most aggressive cutting action in the barrel is at the point of constriction, and the remainder of the barrel basically gets no lapping action once that soft lapping bullet goes through the constriction. A harder bullet will "spring back" to some degree, and basically lap all parts of the bore at the same rate, thus enlarging everything uniformly, and not addressing the tight spots specifically.
I also mentioned oversize bullets. This is to insure equal lapping action not only on the tops of the lands, but in the bottoms of the grooves at the point of maximum barrel diameter as well. If the bullet is less than maximum groove diameter, it will only wipe off the tops of your lands, thus reducing the actual depth of your rifling. There is a popular practice out there in the shooting industry today to use jacketed bullets for lapping. Please use caution, and consider what I just presented, and the following concepts. Most barrels today are .0005-.0015" over what nominal accepted norms are for bore dimensions. Consequently, when lapping with jacketed bullets the only part of the barrel that gets lapping action is the tops of the lands and the bottoms of the grooves never get touched, which is where most fouling and leading occur, not to mention reducing the depth of your rifling by only wiping out the tops of the lands. Fire lapping isn't complicated, but it is tedious, and must be approached systematically with common sense.

neco.com

Read my post on the "Gunsmithing" forum....avoid the NECO system like the plague and look at David Tubb's Final Finish...I've used both and there is no comparision.

I've had great results using my own lapping bullets on revolvers with thread constriction and rough bores. This was done by rolling the bullets in carbide lapping compound between two flat steel plates. I've also used Tubbs' "Final Finish" with excellent results. You DO NOT want to fire them at anywhere close to max velocity. If using "Final Finish" follow the instructions and use the lowest velocity load listed. I wouldn't resort to lapping until you have fired the gun enough to see what it's behaving like.

Good Luck,
Ben H

I fire lapped a marling guide gun using beartooths products and it came out great, definate reduction in fouling and leading. I think fir lapping should only be done with cast slugs, not jacketed bullets. Consult Beartooth bullets for the details.

Why would you want to deliberatly shoot the rifling out of a brand new barrel before you even know how it will group. I feel firelapping is just not the way to go. The reason you install a new barrel is because the old barrel is shot out or defective. I would use the clean and shoot breakin method for the first 5 to 10 rounds, then after each group until at least 100 rounds have been fired. If your new barrel is so rough you feel you need to firelap it, then it needs replaced not firelapped. Rough barrels may or may not respond to the firelap bullets, nothing is cast in stone when it comes to any rifle bore. I have seen terrible looking bores shoot incredible groups for a good long time. Firelapping is just one big waiste of time period end of sentence.

Firelapping is simply barrel wear, nothing more...better to break a barrel in properly and quit looking for a short cut....Most barrels will shoot or they won't, end of story...If I get a finecky, I dump it and install a good one...

It costs $20 and takes an afternoon to firelap a barrel with Beartooth's stuff. It worked for me and you can't rebarrel for $20. I haven't used the Neco or Tubb process, but I know of a few cases where people tried it without reading the instructions first, and blamed Beartooth, Neco or Tubb for their problems.

Bye
Jack

Jack,
All I'm saying is lapping isn't a cure all to poor accuracy, its polishing a poorly finished barrel...

The same effect can be had by just shooting a gun say 200 times and getting some shooting practice, which most folks need...

If a gun is shooting 3.5" or in my case 3" groups, then its a waste of time and effort IMO. I just rebarrel and that cost me about $200, but hunting is my business and I don't mind spending for the right tool to do the right job....But I understand we all have our priorities...

Hi, Ray:
This was one of Remington's hammer forged barrels, and 200 rounds didn't do it. If anything, the copper fouling was getting worse. Ross Seyfried's article on firelapping came out about the time I was ready to turn the barrel into a crowbar. Accuracy is about the same as before, 1 1/4" at 100 yards, not great but passible for a .30-06. I went 60 rounds once this summer without cleaning and I think it could have gone a 100. It did take 60 rounds and lots of cleaning to break in the barrel, but it had the same treatment before firelapping and it wouldn't break in. Yes, I did get some practise.

I don't recommend firelapping as a general procedure. If it ain't broke, don't fix it; but it ain't working, fix it.

Bye
Jack

[ 10-23-2003, 08:36: Message edited by: JackM ]

I've only used firelapping once. It was on my dad's 18.5" barrel Model 7. It was the worst barrel I've ever run into. It shot patterns rather than groups and copper fouled horribly on just a few shots. It's had more than enough rounds through it to be broken in by merely shooting. I don't know how my dad ever hit anything with it. I have too many dollars in the pipeline right now on other rifle projects to rebarrel my dad's rifle on my money, so I tried firelapping as a last resort. I used Final Finish and it worked as advertised. The rifle no longer copper fouls and "group" size cut in half.

The down side: the throat is now considerably longer. Not a problem on my dad's rifle. The throat used to be so short as it was, didn't even allow bullets to be seated as long as the magazine! Problem solved. One just needs to monitor the throat from shot to shot while firelapping. I would never consider using grit-coated bullets in any of my Shilens, but then, they would never need such.