I'm toying with the idea of getting a lever gun for hard cast hunting this Fall. This is mostly a reloading question comparing the two.

I see 444 brass is very expensive. Priced at Midway about $52/100. 44 mag brass is about half. My 444 loads would be very mild. Somewhere in the 1500 fps MV area. I did a search and found a site that gives these low loads for the 444, so I know it can be done. Anyway, I'm wondering if the brass will last that much longer than regular 44 mag brass.

The Marlin 444 now has a 20" twist, compared to the old 38" twist of the 1894 44 model. I feel better with the faster twist, but if the 38" twist offers stability out to 100 yards with a 250 gr. hardcast then.... Of course the 444 will offer more versatility in the long run.

I don't mind the bigger gun, it will help on the recoil. I'm just wondering if the thing is just way too over engineered for my purposes. I"m also concerned if I load this up to levels to significantly extend the range, I won't like the recoil level.

I'm also wondering if there is anything one can do to extend brass life with either cartridge. Is it possible to partially resize? Does it matter? Anyone know the general brass life of either cartridge with mild/medium loads?

Just thinking about it. Both guns are in the same price neighborhood. I have Lee carbide dies for the 44 mag but would have to buy a set for 444.

Any thoughts? This would pretty much be a hunting gun. I can't afford to spray that much lead at paper anymore.

Thanks for any opinion/advice.

John

Depending on what you are going to be hunting I would also look at the 45-70. I have the 1895 Cowboy in 45-*70 and have worked up two loads; mild= 350g bullet at 1560fps and wild=405g bullet at 1980fps. Recoil in the first is mild and pleasant, recoil in the second is not!!!

I have had a 444 since 1981.. with mild loads the brass seems to last a long long time..

I am looking to pick up a 44 Mag in a hand gun, like a S & W 629... with a 6.5 to 7.5 inch barrel...

I have had 2 different 44 Mag Marlin rifles.. both were real lousy when it came to accuracy.. like 5 inches groups at 50 yds kind of lousy accuracy... I got rid of both of them...

I just load the 444 to 44 Mag Velocities...actually 44 Mag load data in a 444 case will actually yield the same MV as intended in the 44 Mag... just with lower pressure..

I never bought a 45/70 because with the 444 bought first, I never had the need for a 45/70.. even if it can be loaded to do more... the 444 accomplishes it good enough...

Mine is fed a diet of a lot of different powders, but the bullets are always Hornady XTPs, especially the 300 grain XTP...

and that rifle has been accurate enough, I wonder if it thinks it is a varmint rifle, instead of a lever action...

it has been a good solid reliable rifle...

now if I'd just ever get around to buying it a good scope instead of using low buck stuff...like tascos...

The key to extending case life in rimmed, slightly tapered cartridges like the 45-70 Gov't and 444 Marlin is moderate loads, sizing only to the base of the seated bullet with a Lyman Neck Die (not available for the 444, but partial full length sizing might work), expanding with a Lyman 'M' die, and as little crimp as possible (preferably with a Lee Factory Crimp die).

Do not miss looking at the 450 Marlin. Great caliber but often overlooked. Excellent range of power if you handload.

I have had 3 different 44 Mag Rifles. Still have one that I use all the time.

All have been 1 in 38 twist barrels and accuracy suffers past 75 yards.

If the 444 is truely a 1 in 20 twist it should be a lot more accurate than a 1 in 38 44 Mag.

I really like the 44 mag rifle, especially since i most always have a 44 Mag revolver in the woods as well.

The 44 Mag rifles should be 1 in 20 twist as well.

The 45/70 Marlin would be a good choice as well. My brothers Guide gun shoots like a sniper rifle at 100 yards.

Reasons I would choose the .444 over the .44 Mag (the choice we were given):

1. You can load the .444 M down to .44 Mag velocities with all the bullets normally used in the Mag. You can NOT load the .44 Mag up to .444 velocities with all of the bullets normally used in the .444s.

2. With the quicker twist in the .444, it is usually no problem to find loads which will shoot 1 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards even from the lever gun. For instance, 53 grains of IMR 3031 and 265 gr. Hornady bullets would do that in all three of my .444s...and still do in the one I have left. I've never owned a .44 Mag that would even approach that accuracy.

3. Read Nos. 1 & 2 again


P.S.: If you're over 40, 100 .444 Marlin brass, shot in a Marlin rifle, should last you the rest of your life if you just use it for hunting. What does that work out to? Maybe 25 or 50 cents a year difference in brass price?

Yep, if I were going to the bigger rifle I would go 45-70. Brass is afforadable & lasts forever. Then again, I shoot several odd calibers & have never let the cost of brass sway my decision. Unless you are shooting CAS w/ it, 500rds of brass will last alooong time.

I sure have to agree with the 45-70 as it's a lot more versatile.

Even if a 45/70 is 'more versatile', I can't think of a job it will do that a handloader can't do with a 444, and moreso with some of those cases loaded up by Buffalo Bore or whatever that outfit's name is...

I don't knock a 45/70... I just don't like to see the 444 listed as an understudy of a 45/70, for about anything you'd ever use one for in the lower 48...

I have several 44 magnum and 45-70's in single shot and lever actions. Both cartridges and rifles are a blast to hunt and shot. Both cartridges are very easy to load, and the bullets are easy to cast. Also both cartridges are very easy on brass in both a lever action, and in a single shot. If I only had one it would be the 45-70, but boy am I glad I do not have to choose between the two.

The 444 is also a great choice, as well as the 450 Marlin. However they are not as popular as the 45-70 and the 44 magnum. IMO the 44 magnum and 45-70 is cheaper to load for, and resale of the firearms(if you ever sell one) would be higher. That is the simple truth. Below is a Marlin 1894 I just picked up. I was loking for a 44 magnum with a good piece of wood, and I found a half way decent one. Tom.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Even if a 45/70 is 'more versatile', I can't think of a job it will do that a handloader can't do with a 444, and moreso.....


I don't knock a 45/70... I just don't like to see the 444 listed as an understudy of a 45/70, for about anything you'd ever use one for in the lower 48...

+1

Hey Head, Be sure to carry a "towel" with you when you take that rifle afield. Then when you fall and wham a big GUURRR on the stock you can directly into the towel. Sure is a looker!!!
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Hey JWK, You have really put some excellent thought into the process. Not sure anyone can help you with the decision other than to offer first-hand experience with both excellent Cartridges.

For the 44Mag, I've loaded for a bunch of them, both Revolver and Rifles. When the Load is correct, it is possible to decapitate a Turkey with a 44Mag(though I do not recommend Head Shots). You already have the Dies, the Cases will last forever, it would be a great selection for 100-150yds(which is what you mentioned) and it shoots great with a number of Powders from a SAFE MAX to Reduced Loads. Great Cartridge!

That said, I'm on my 2nd 444Mar because I like the Cartridge so well. Same can be said for it as the 44Mag, but it uses a bit more Powder and you would need a new set of Dies(plus Case Lube). Also the same for accuracy, have been able to decapitate "Thistles" with it while they were slowly moving in the breeze at various distances. (Couldn't believe it myself! )

This won't help at all, but you can't go wrong with either in a rifle.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

Thanks for all the useful information, everyone.

JWK

Keep us posted on what rifle you get and how it shoots.

Also check out Cor-Bon's and Buffalo Bore's web site for some info in their "full Power" 444 and 45/70 ammo.