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| one of us |
How do you make an Improved 300 Win.? Well, I did it by simply running some new 300 brass through my 308 Norma die! (insert wild laughter here). At the same time I improved the 308 Norma by getting rid of that crap Norma brass. So in one operation (well, actually, two. I had to trim)I got rid of the objectionable features of both. The 300's dorky looking short neck and the 308's soft brass. Interestingly, I notice that there is significant difference in the Norma brass from different times of manufacture. The webs vary in thickness by about.050". If Winchester had just gone ahead and chambered the Norma back in the 60s we wouldn't have to reform the short necked brass to achieve the superior case design that is the 308 Norma. (Picture me putting on my firesuit here). Regards, Bill. | ||
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| <Mads> |
Bill, do you really consieder Norma brass to be crapy? To my that is the best I've ever used. Tried some Remington the other day, and oh boy they were bad as h...! Regards Mads | ||
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| <GeorgeInNePa> |
How dumb am I? I actually use Norma brass in my .300Win! | ||
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one of us |
Bill I have always respected Norma brass. What's the problem? To improve the 300 Winchester, why not just buy a 338WM? ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
Yes I do think Norma brass is crappy. It is and always has been too soft. Loads that are just fine in other brass will loosen primer pockets in Norma. Hell, I get measurable case head expansion with factory loads in the 308 NM yet velocities are normal. I have found the same thing in using Norma brass in 308 Win, 30/06, and 6MM Rem. Even though the case capacity was the same as the winchester brass, loads had to be reduced by nearly 5%. The has been some debate recently over the latest 6.5/284 brass stating the same problem. Dimensionally, the Norma brass is great and always has been. Lapua brass is very tough and you really have to go out of your way to expand a pocket with it. I have heard it is made in the same plant which, if true, makes this very strange indeed. Regards, Bill. | |||
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| one of us |
I don't believe that Norma brass is "crappy" but I have to agree with Bill about the "soft" part. I have used Norma Brass in the 308 Norma Mag, the 7mm Rem Mag, the 7x61 S&H, the 7mm Mauser, the 6.5x55 and the 222 Remington. This brass always seems to be more sensitive to pressure than Winchester brass, which I prefer as far as domestic stuff goes. The internal capacity of Norma brass varys with the vintage of the brass. Some of the old stuff with the "Re" included in the headstamp has much less capacity than the later manufacture. For the price, Norma brass can stay on the shelf IMHO. Regards Eagleye. | |||
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| one of us |
Eagleeye, Good point on the variation in capacity. The old 308NM brass I have has a web .050" thicker than the most recent. The capacity is noticably less. This same thing occurs with other brands of course. Regards, Bill. | |||
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| One of Us |
Bill, Winchester brass seems much softer than it was years ago. The older brass has a bluish colour on the head. The inside of the case head is also different. Older Winchester brass was just a concave head with the flash hole showing. Now it has what looks like a little primer pocket inside the case. The Remington bulk brass we get from Huntingtons is real soft. Our Winchester brass is imported by Winchester Australia. The last I got was in 375 and was in bulk carboard boxes of 100 cases. Norma brass has always been soft. Many years ago we use to make cases for 300 and 340 Wby from Super X 375 cases. However, these days I would rate Norma Wby brass harder than Winchester cases but because Winchester has got soft, not because Norma has got harder. Mike | |||
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| <Cardinal> |
quote:Norma is the brass with the best accuracy in my HS HTR. I have brass which have been reloaded several times. My top load with Norma brass is the Sierra 220gr MK at 3000 fps. At this velocity, it didn't last long but I don't think any would.... In my rifle, Remington is an absolute POS. Winchester is OK. | ||
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| one of us |
Can't argue with your experience, I've only used it in the 6.5X55. But again, I have had no problems. I guess i'll have to try some winchester brass to compare. I usually get my brass from factory loads, and loads this side of the Atlantic suck. | |||
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| one of us |
Years ago I did a lot of reloading with Norma brass in the .22 Varminter. I noticed that with near maximum loads the case life was short; ie, the primer pockets bacame loose afte a few loadings. Some time later, in Handloader, someone said that Norma made their brass to give pressure indications at 55,000 psi. Apparently this was to give handloaders warning that were about to exceed safe pressure levels. I currently use Norma brass in my 7x57mm, and find it uniform and it is giving good service at loads that are a little under maximum. As far as the .300Win.Mag. goes and don't see any problem with the way it is designed. They made the case .120" longer than their other magnum cartridges and shortened the neck by pushing the shoulder forward increasing powder capacity. | |||
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