I am going to reload for a 45-70 for a friend. he bought a Winchester lever action and was told that this gun had a much stronger action than a marlin?? I do not and havenot ever owned or loaded for any 45-70.

I have see that there is a large amount of info here on this caliber here. My question is can it be loaded closer to a ruger action??

He was wanting a load that would duplicate the hot loads sold by buffalo company. I told him for white tail I thought a 350 gn jacketed bullet should work fine. I do not intend to laod to the ruger all though i was intrested in finding out if this was true. Thanks

Steve,

If this Winchester is the new 1886 extra light rifle then it does have a strong action and should be able to handle the marlin and ruger #1 & #3 loads. I have not shot this rifle and only read about it but as far as I can tell and I may be wrong but US Repeating Arms has beefed up this action and like I said should be able to handle the hot loads..

I have a marlin in 45/70 that shoots 300grainers @ a whopping 2100fps and groups a 3 shot group @ 1" @ 100yds..

6.5 Bandit

[ 10-16-2003, 20:12: Message edited by: 6.5 Bandit ]

Sorry yes it is hte 1886 model. He said they stoped making it in the late 90's.

Again i am looking to load for Mi white tails. I do nto think he is going to be shooting past 150.

Ihave not shot one of these what is a 405 grn bullet like to shoot with a hot load?? I am thikning rather rough on the shoulder. I see that thee is a large selection of jacketed 350 grn bullets. That is middle of the road, Are there any problems with feeding on a 405 flat nose??

Steve,

Winchester started makin the extra light in 2000 I belive and these are the one's with the strong actions. Im not sure if the one your buddie has is the extra light style.. They also made a high grade 86 gun in 98 wich I belive will handel the hot loads but im not 100% sure on that..

I never shot anything higher then the 300 grainers out of mine and it has droped plenty of whitetails out to about 125yds dead in there tracks...

6.5 Bandit

405 flat noses will feed fine, as that's long been the standard factory load. Loaded hot, they are rough on the shoulder. My repro 1895 Marlin with the curved hard buttplate will turn my shoulder pretty colors with one round of that. However, I've got big brown spots on my shoulder now from firing 24 rounds of blackpowder-level (1470 FPS) loads with a 340 grain cast Gould hollowpoint 2 days ago. That last load, BTW, would make me confident facing any critter in North America. High velocity with most .45-70 bullets only reduces the penetration.

Steve in MI: I don't know of any reloading source that says 45-70 loads developed for the Ruger #1 will be safe in any of the new era lever guns. Yes, the new 86 is very strong, as is the Marlin but I don't believe they are in the same class as a #1 and neither do a lot of more knowledgable sources than you will likely find here.

Consult a reputable loading manual and work your loads up following proper procedures. If your rifle is the extra light rifle model you will find the recoil is more than adequate when you are approaching the published maximum recommended loads for that rifle.

If you plan to shoot the rifle a lot I recommend you develop a more moderate load for practice purposes. The heaviest loads are hard on the shooter, the stocks, and the rifle in general just from the pounding they deliver. Which is not to say you shouldn't use them for hunting if you require that kind of energy.

I dont think you need "hot" loads in a 45-70 for whitetail deer. I have shot two at 100 yds or less with 405 bullets at about 1200-1300 fps, and it is big medicine. Two kills is not an exhaustive study I admit, so I will yield to those with more experience, but 1300 is about equal to the original blackpowder loads, which no one ever said was underpowered for whitetails. Recoil is a lot less also, and recoil gets real serious once you get above 1400 fps. Just my opinion for what its worth. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do. Joe S

The new Winchester (& Browning) 1886 Carbines and Rifles have a very strong action. It is the same action that the model 71 uses for their .348 WCF. The .348 WCF operates at a pressure in the mid 42,000's psi and is a reasonable tapered case. This spells to a lot of case head thrust. The action therefore is beefy.

The problem that you must be aware of, is in the design of the bolt face. It has a very large cutout to accommodate the ejector. If the rounds are loaded too hot, the case head will push back into this large unsupported cut-out (as I found out). This is the achillis heal of the design when using the thinner/weaker .45-70 cases. Saying this, I would limit the loads to the Marlin level.