Gentlemen,

I was reading the discussion on the big game hunting fomum http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002456 and got to wondering what would happen if .311 bullets were loaded in a 30 (.308) caliber rifle. I have little interest in trying this stunt myself, but have noticed that remington still offers their 180 round-nose core-lokt bullet in that caliber... I would guess that in addition to higher pressures, there would be more copper left behind in the bore. Any thoughts?

Don't do it.......... putting the .311 bullet down a new .308 barrle will increase pressure, now combine that with the possiblity of a tight necked chamber, and you are headed for trouble.

Just stay with the .308 and not cause any new problems.

IF your chamber is tight enough that the case neck does not FREELY release the bullet when it is fired, (REGARDLESS OF BULLET DIAMETER IN RELATION TO BORE DIAMETER)it creates a VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION! If your case neck expanded enough to freely release the bullet, one COULD fire a .311" bullet in a .308" bore without any undue problems. There was at least one incident in which a person rechambered a 6.5mm Arisaka to .30/'06, but only enlarged the chamber. The bore was still 6.5mm!! He shot the gun with no adverse reactions for several years before it was discovered that he had been shooting .308" bullets through the .264" (or thereabouts!!) bore!! Since peak pressure in a rifle barrel occurs AFTER the bullet has move several inches down the bore, the bullet has been swaged up or down long before pressure peaks, as long as the bullet is freely released from the cartridge case neck. Nonetheless, firing oversized bullets is not something anyone should consider doing on purpose!!

My question is why would you want to use .311" bullets in your .308 when there are so many good bullets available of the proper diameter?

pumpkinheaver,

I have no intention of using .311 bullets in any .308 rifle, but have often wondered what would happen (to someone else) if it were done... I guess that the reason I have given it any thought at all is that I lament the loss of the useful round-fronted remington bullets. I have been using hornady 180 RNs with no complaints, just wish I could get my hands on a few hundred of the rems.

Guess this adds a new dimention to the "reduce load by 10%" instruction always offered for new load development...

Hello All, I swage 0.308" heads down to 0.300" in my Rockchucker - no great problem - the forces seem to be less than when I case form for my Ross. So I would agree with eldeguello that the bullet won't give you any problems.

(actually the hole in the swaging die is 0.296" - the bullet recovers a bit after coming out of the die - all materials have elasticity)

HOWEVER ..... a tight neck in the chamber is a totally different thing.

I made up some 7.65x53 cases from 30-06 brass. They looked just fine - chambered very snugly - but the recoil! Oh - the recoil......

Sufficient to say that we stopped being brave (stupid?) after only firing 5 rounds. I pulled all the heads, popped off the primers and started looking at things. Rifle looks OK - huge sigh of relief.

The brass at the neck measured about 0.002" thicker than a factory case. Doesn't sound much does it? That's just a bit more than the thickness of a hair! Of course that's 2 thou per side - so the case was larger by 0.004" which was sufficient to hold the bullet that little bit more firmly and allow the pressures to climb dramatically.

I'm busy making an outside neck reamer to remove that extra brass....

end of tale of experience - cheers edi

eldeguello,

I find the 6.5 to 30/06 hard to believe unless thehooter worked up loads for a 6.5/06.

To fire say 150 grain 30/06 ammo through a 6.5 barrel would amount to using loading data for 150 grain 30/06s in the 6.5/06.

Mike

Mike375,

See Ackley's Handbook Vol 1 regarding this subject. One may indeed fire an oversized bullet(up to a point) without harm if the throat has proper dimensions. The question is, 'Why would you want to do that?' On the other hand, if the throat is not of suitable size you will certainly be picking up pieces after the fact. Seyfried recently had an article in Handloader or Rifle(can't remember which) wherein the victim fired a 7mm Rem Mag in a 270 Weatherby Mark V. Results were spectacular! Action was still usable though...

DigitalDan,

If you had a 6.5/06 and used 150 grain bullets loaded with the powder type and charge used for 150 grain bullets in the 30/06, what would you expect in the way of pressure?

Mike

I once fired a .311"bullet in my .300 Winchester magnum. The primer was blown out of its pocket and extraction was a bit difficult. The bullet came from a mislabelled box from the manufacturer. They 180 grain spitzer flat base types and looked exactly like their .30 caliber counter parts.

Believe it or not, Mike, it really happened! The guy shot .30/06 factory ammo in the gun, and the "bullets looked like arrows" after being swaged from .30 to .26 caliber!! I read a writeup about this in the American Rifleman years ago. The NRA found out about it when the guy who did it sent the rifle to the NRA for testing. I believe (MAY BE WRONG) that the NRA has this Arisaka on display somewhere to this day!!

Not too cool an idea...

How would you like to put your 11-1/2-D feet in a pair of 8-B boots all day?

[ 09-15-2002, 20:09: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

Arn't Ruger Mini 30 barrels 30 cal with a long throat? Maybe that why they aren't accurate.

The 303 Savage was designed to use a 190gr .311" dia bullet to be fired thru a .308" groove barrel. Other then the neck dia and release problems, it is NOT dangerous. Ruger mini 30's digest foreign 7.62 ammo all the time. Results are what makes all this impractical and that is the accuracy or lack thereof.

Bear Claw, that MAY be ONE of the reasons that Mini-30's don't shoot worth sour apples, but I have had some folks tell me the Mini-14 isn't too hot in the accuracy department either , but these don't try to shoot .224" bullets through a .221" bore using a long throat!!

It is possible to fire an oversized bullet through a normal bore but there will be some increase in pressure and a change in the pressure curve. The extent of the change may vary dependent upon the propellant burning rate, throat shape etc.
I do know of one instance where a shooter fired a 30 cal Swift A-Frame bullet (308 Norma)through a 7mm bore (7STW). Pressure was certainly very high but the rifle made it through with minor damage.
When it comes to accuracy the oversized bullet doesn't usually perform very well because the jacket springs back while the lead core, being less resilient, doesn't.
The tight neck does increase pressures but,again depending on the propellent among other things, usually not a catastrophic amount. In my tight necked 6.5 target rifle some thickened necks were allowing no expansion. The neck was thick enough that it could be felt when chambering but didn't require pounding on the bolt or anything. Shots from these cases hit about 1moa high in comparison to the others. Once I figured this out I was able to compensate when I chambered a tight one and still make center hits. I would not have fired these at all but I was short on ammunition for the match.
In another case I was shooting with a fellow who was having to pound the bolt shut. Finally I measured one of his cartridges and they were a solid .002" over the diameter of his chamber neck. Pressure were not excessive and in fact appeared to be about the same as those cartridges which were of the proper size. Now, in this case the bullets were moly coated and this may well have had an effect.
I used 311 bullets in a P17 30/06 I had and they worked well. This was probably because the groove diameter was .312"! Regards, Bill.

For some oversized old military bores, this may be a good idea for accuracy. BUT slug the bore first. Some are oversized yes, some are undersized too.
On a new rifle I think you're nuts!

AS I've posted before, I had a friend who fired a 350 Rem Mag through a 338 Win Mag. No harm was done the the rifle, the bolt opened easily, the case came out looking like a 458 win mag with a roll crimp. This is no "message board myth". It happend at Brackenridge Range in San Antonio about 10 years ago. The guy who did it is still stationed at Lackland AFB. The rifle was a Ruger 77.

Jim

A fellow I used to hunt with did this a few years before I met him.He fired a 8mm Mauser round in a real nice Browning Safari in 308 Norma.The bullet went thru the bore OK.We are only talking .015 here.Barrel was OK.But it actually cracked the reciever on the lower lug abuttment(sp?).I ended up with the rifle a few years ago and parted it out.

That is why Winchester and Remington loaded the 8mm Mauser so mild. In case some one fired the current .323" bullet through an old .318" bore, which was the original size for the first 8mm Mauser.