The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Resizing issueGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I'm having a resizing issue with my 300 Win Mag. Brief background on me..I reloaded from the time I was 16 up until I was about 40. Mainly for decent ammunition at a good price. I was not a "precision" reloader and didn't even know what headspace was. I have started back now-15 years later- with a lot more time and patience to get very precise with my loads. I reload for 6 calibers and have really enjoyed getting accurate loads for each. My issue is this- when resizing my 300 brass I adjust my die so that I'm bumping the shoulder back .002 however, the case is not being sized properly at the mouth and there is no billet tension. I can literally push the bullet into the case after seating. Adjusting the die to bump the shoulder .006 solves the problem but I don't want to work the case that much. The problem is compounded on another 300 I have because the chamber is .005 longer so I really have to bump way back to get tension. Since I don't have this issue with any other calibers I assume it's an issue with my die, just not sure and wanted input from others. I can try some competition shell holders but I don't see where that would help? Any advice would be appreciated Thanks | ||
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First of all I would use separate brass for each rifle as they obviously have vastly different chambers. Second I would anneal your cases. Third I would go back to a full length sizing procedure. At this point the problem would / should be solved, then work your way back to neck sizing. Other posters will have different suggestions I'm sure, but these three steps will get you back on the page. | |||
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I have another take on it; merely pushing the case into the die another four thousandths is not going to give you more neck tension. First thing to do is check your inside neck expander. That is what determines the final inside diameter. Assuming the die is not grossly out of spec. Do this first; size some brass without the neck expander installed. See if you have bullet tension. If you do. then it is the expander, which you can make smaller. Also remember that different makes of brass have different neck thicknesses. but the die and expander combination are designed to allow for those tolerances. Or send the die to me and I will find out. But for sure, that extra .004 is not the cause or solution. And .004 difference is not vastly different; well within SAAMI specs. | |||
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Snellstrom, thanks for the reply. I do keep the brass separate because of the difference in chambers. My goal is to only bump shoulders back on each one .002. I have never annealed before, I'll look into that. I'm using a full length sizing die, screwing it down just until it touches the shell holder, and adjusting very slightly until I get .002 back at the shoulder. There is no cam over when I resize but not really a gap either. I was using a feeler gauge initially but now I just trial and error 2-3 cases to get it to .002. Is there a better way to do it? | |||
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What DPCD said. DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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Thanks DPCD, next time I'll try without the expander. I've not measured the expander ball but on the cases without proper tension the case mouth measured .307+- and the ones after I barely screwed the die in (enough to bump the shoulder .004)measured .302 if I remember correctly. I don't know what it should measure after resizing?? Thanks | |||
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There is just no way that pushing a case into a die .004 more will result in Five thousandths more neck tension. Necks on the 300 are not tapered that much. And the difference in a shoulder length of .002 is nothing. Expander balls are usually .001 to .002 smaller than bullet diameter. I don't know how you get .005 ID difference in pushing a case into the die only .004 more. Something else is happening, I think. Annealing is not a problem, nor a solution either. Measure your expander plug. What is happening is very strange. | |||
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Just use separate brass for each 300 and size with a neck sizing die and don't look back. If you load cases until they stretch enough to chamber hard bump the shoulders back a little. As someone else stated, you can anneal case necks and shoulders to keep the brass from work hardening and they will last much longer. I have never loaded a cartridge with brass so scarce I had to get into annealing but I know others that live by it. Dennis Life member NRA | |||
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You could buy a Redding busing & body die set with right size bushing for your rifle. That is what I have for my 280AI. 2 bushings - one for Norma brass and one for the Winchester Nickel brass "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I would think there is something funny with your die, maybe. If your measurements are correct, something ain't right! RCBS die? Sounds like it's either tapered in some place it shouldn't be, brass neck thickness is too thin at the mouth from over chamfering and resizing, or there is some gunk build up in the die. I fully length size my .300 win mag only after having a tight closing bolt and use a collet neck sizing die from Lee the rest of the time. The shoulder should be bouncing back a couple thou most every shot naturally to make a nice fit in the chamber. Annealing every 5 firings keeps mine working for lots of loadings. Some times I think the neck springs back after sizing if the brass gets too hard. Annealing will prevent that, along with preventing split necks. But, can't say I know what's happening in your specific situation. Your die might not resize to that exacting shape to get the necks right without pushing back the shoulder that little extra. Lee collet die might be something you would learn to like for the .300 win mag. But eventually the case will need some love and squeezing full length. | |||
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 Do what Dcpd said or this: Take out your stem from you sizing die. Wrap the threaded portion in tape. Chuck it gently in a drill. (don't bugger up the threads.) As you run the drill, use a file, then a little fine sandpaper to polish a little off of the expander button. Try it and see if you get the proper neck tension. This aint rocket science. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Yes that dead horse thing is real. Just for clarification, moving any reloading die FOUR thousandths (.004) up or down requires turning it 1/18th of a turn. (One turn moves it .071 because all dies are 14 threads per inch) It is impossible to move a die .004 up or down and create a .005 change in the neck ID unless the die was very tapered and they aren't, in the neck. Is that what you are doing? Yes it ain't rocket surgery. Send it to me and I will diagnose it for you. | |||
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The sizing die closes the neck diameter smaller than bullet diameter, the decapping pin/sizing ball then pulls through the neck to set the final neck diameter. If the bullet won't hold in the case, it's probably the sizing ball on the decapping pin. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Other thing to check is your bullet seating set up. I loaded 7mm-08 some decades ago for my father’s rifle, then for my brother when he inherited the rifle, using Lyman dies purchased new. When I purchased a 7mm-08 maybe 10 or so years ago I loaded for it with a variety of cases I had on hand and then two of my sons purchased 7mm-08 rifles two. With new Remington brass I started to have problems with neck tension, or lack of it, so put that aside and used some once fired Federal and Winchester. This was better although not perfect with some cases and when loading for three different 7mm-08s I had to adjust the seating depth with different bullet styles and if doing so on an already seated bullet I lost neck tension. Could turn bullet in case neck easily. Was a real puzzle why this was happening and it even happened if I FL sized cases but didn’t use a sizing button on the decapper rod. Also tried a 7mm neck sizing die, a sizing button from my 7x57 die set and a spare button I reduced in size. All to no avail, even annealing cases did help. I suspected maybe the bullets were not being seated ‘inline’ as it seemed strange that if I did get bullets seated with neck tension, if I seated them slightly deeper I lost that neck tension. I purchased a Lee dead length seating die and solved all the problems. Even resurrected the original ‘new’ Remington brass I had purchased and got, and retained, perfect neck tension. Can load any case and can change seating depths at will, all the while the neck tension is retained. My Pacific ‘C’ reloading press has done a lot of work but I haven’t experienced any issues with other cartridges I have loaded, although to be fair nowadays I’m only loading 404 (RCBS dies), 223 (Lee dies) and 7mm-08. Perhaps the press ram has developed enough wear to change the bullet seating characteristics with the Lyman seating die? | |||
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Good results using just the neck sizer in my Redding die set. https://www.brownells.com/relo...-sets-prod37436.aspx | |||
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I'm at a complete loss trying to figure out what was wrong. I took the die apart, cleaned it and reassembled. Didn't notice anything out of whack. Resized more cases with the die barely bumping the shoulder and some with it screwed down giving a heavy cam and bumping the shoulder back about .012. The case mouths all measured .304. They ensured .308-.311 prior to resizing. As I've gotten older I've about determined I can screw up things that can baffle most people! i can only guess something was amiss with the expander ball/die and disassembling and cleaning must have fixed it. Anyhow, all seems to be fine for now. I'll just measure everything going forward for a while to be sure. I appreciate everyone's responses. This was my first post and everyone was most helpful. I look forward to learning more from others experiences. Thanks | |||
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I would not worry about bumping the shoulder back "too much". What is going to happen - you get 5 loadings instead of 6 per case? I lose the brass before that. In 35+ years of reloading I have simply followed full length resizing instructions and I have had 1 cartridge where I had to make sure I used an additional 1/8 of a turn. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Any chance these cases were previously neck-turned, or neck-reamed? Also.....agree, a 0.012" shoulder bump is way too much. Kevin | |||
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You guys might not be understanding the outcome; OP said he has now found no difference in not bumping, and a .012 bumping; both now produce good neck tension. AS IT should be. NO amount of extra pushing a case into the die will result in more neck tension, as I said at least twice above. Neck turning or reaming is not relevant. The OP has no problem, it turns out. | |||
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This is good advice from Luckyducker. Removing the expander will do it also but why work 'fire formed' brass unnecessarily.jc | |||
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Really? No one is actually reading the information in this thread? The OP has cleaned his die and has discovered that he now has no problem. He does not need to do any of the things suggested, all offered (with good intentions) before anyone knew what the problem really was. Solutions implemented before you know the root problem is backwards and expensive. Same as rushing into surgery without doing any diagnosis. | |||
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You should know by now DP, that "we the people" don't necessarily read and understand questions on forums in the light of what an OP says...we interpret what OUR experience dictates, which is not the same as understanding a/the problem. We TRY to help which is the best part. Reloading dies are the heart of the shooting matter and regrettably are given short shrift or little understood as to how to set them up correctly, OR how to fit to the dimensions of rifle/pistol chambers. Good Hunting   | |||
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Not true, the OP or anyone else here still does not know what the problem was. The OP did the surgery without diagnoses as you have put it on other posters as doing. Cleaning the die was not necessarily the solution as you yourself are surmising because the OP also took the die apart and reassembled it. This latter bit is most likely the key rather than the cleaning. Although again surmising, I suggest the decapping stem had got or been tightened off-center. The act of disassembly, cleaning and reassembly has solved the problem but no-one knows what caused the problem and this to me is the important bit as diagnosing the cause of an issue you can hopefully prevent it happening again. While resolving an issue is good I myself get frustrated when I don't learn what the actual problem was and how it was fixed. I do agree with you that forcing the case further into a sizing die is not going to improve neck tension. | |||
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Let me start by saying I will humbly accept the Dumbass of the year award on this issue, wish it had not been my first post but I'm sure it won't be the last stupid thing I do. Here's the deal...I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what caused this issue...nothing made sense. My routine is to take brass, run it thru my tumbler, resize and deprime it, and put it in a ziplock bag until I work my loads up. This way I have brass on hand ready to go..just seat primer and charge for a particular load. Well, I went thru all my brass and realized the bag I used was some brass that had been deprimed but NEVER RESIZED. It hit me that a friend of mine gave me some brass a few years ago and he deprimes his before resizing and then uses his ultrasonic cleaner. With my brass, deprimed means resized. This bag got mixed in with my bags of brass and I never realized/forgot that it wasn't resized. It measured at the shoulder just right for my Remington 300 Win Mag which is what I always do to confirm I have the right brass for the right 300. Obviously, when I had the issue with loose bullets, pulled the bullets, bumped the shoulder back a few thousandths the mouth was being reduced several thousandths because it had never been resized to begin with. Since I have always deprimed as I resize it never occurred to me the unprimed brass was an old bag of unsized brass. Lesson learned. Again, thanks for everyone's help and advice. | |||
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No harm, no foul. If thats the worst mistake you ever make reloading, your gold! DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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I don't think we have a Dumbass of the year award here as we would run out of trophies real quick. I bet there wouldn't be a member on AR who wasn't guilty of a cocked up or two at some stage when reloading  Why do you there are stuck case removers for resizing dies, bullet pullers, and a range of other get out of jail tools, available. Don't feel bad about it and I commend you for posting the details as it is always good to learn what actually did transpire and how it was fixed. Often posters come on asking for help with a problem but then don't post back with details of whether the problem was fixed or not. | |||
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Trust me . . . we've all made mistakes that in retrospect should not have been made. I include myself. You are not alone. | |||
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Definitely NOT the Dumb-bass award...I have plenty of those also...but the "WAY TO GO" award for posting what happened  ...that has happened to all of us at least once during a reloading career. Would be nice if this sort of thing happened more often.    Good Hunting | |||
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Ive been loading since dirt formed on this earth, but I have to be very careful these days that I don't forget what Im doing at the bench, at the supper table, and when I piss! as will each and every one of you!!   That said, I don't remember ever making a mistake at the reloading bench or anywhere else for that matter,  ...Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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