Hi...first post for me but I'm really stuck. (no pun intended)

I wanted to work up a load for my Sako .375 H+H using the Fail Safe bullet. Basically I just wanted to see how they would work in my gun. The problem is, every time I get near my final OAL the darn bullet sticks onto the seating plug and gets pulled .200"+ out of the case.
I have taken the die apart, cleaned and polished the plug starting with 400 emery and finishing with a craytex block while spinning it in the lathe...no burrs, sharp edges or gunk what so ever. The die set has worked well with all other bullets i have tried except this one............any ideas?
Thanks for reading the post.

Is there a mark on the nose of the bullet now?

Do you have enough neck tension?

Are you using a compressed load?

Are your necks clean inside of case lube?

Hey Baddog, First off, Welcome Aboard!

Looks like you have tried a bunch of good things so far. You might try "lightly" lubing the inside of the Seating Stem with a bit of Imperial Sizing Die Wax, or a light Synthetic oil.

You can send a Bullet to most Die manufacturers and they will cut the Seating Stem to fit that exact profile. In fact, contact the Die manufacturer, let him know what you are experiencing and he may already be aware of it and ready to ship a replacement.

But, you seem to be on the right track. At the point on the Ogive of the Failsafe where you see the Seating Stem begins to make a distinct line around it, is obviously the place where you need to relieve it just a bit more.

Make sure you are chamfering the inside of the Caseneck to eliminate that "edge" and smooth the Seating transition. I also Polish the inside of my Casenecks with a wad of "0000SteelWool" wrapped around an old worn-out 22cal Bore Brush. Just stick the Brush in a handle and give it a few twists inside the Caseneck. I use Moly coated bullets and by doing this, the Moly is not removed from the portion inside the Caseneck.

Savage99: Yes there is still a very very faint ring around the bullet not scratching the bullet but wearing on the moly coat and this is after three ou four attempts to seat the bullet. Neck tension seems to be fine, as the bullet can be actually "felt" pushing into the case and cannot be removed without a puller. The load is a bit compressed but not excessivly. 75gn of IMR4350. Necks have been cleaned, brushed, soaked in solvent, brushed again then dried.

Hot Core: I talked with the "Ask the expert" for Speer (read RCBS) and they were the ones to suggest polishing the seating plug...Maybe you are leading in the right direction with chamfering the leading edge a little extra that might be just enough...I'll give that a try this evening and let you guys know how it turns out.

Baddog

Those Fail Safe bullets have a coating on them that may be a friction modifier. Such friction modifiers are the way to reduce stick slip which is what you want in that neck!

Since you cleaned the necks and think the neck tension is normal I suggest reducing the charge density. A Lee Factory Crimp die would be a good idea also.

Polishing or eliminating the expanding button is something else to try. It is possible that your die is not sizing the necks down quite enough or the necks are tinner than normal.

Well after tonight I think you guys are on the right track.

I re-champhered the seating plug to no avail not only that but my Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets came in today so I wanted to load three of them....guess what.....they stuck too!

I think my next plan of action is to polish a few thou. off of the sizing plug to increase the friction in the neck.

I managed to get the 12 rounds loaded that I wanted so its off to the range tomorrow to see if all this trouble is worth it.

BTW The whole reason for this project is my upcomming return trip to Africa (Zim.June 10,05). Last time I did all the plains game stuff (13 animals) so now I want to take a crack at Buff., Leopard, Hippo. and Sable. I wanted to develop loads that will have the same point of impact while changing from solids to soft points. I also want to be sure that I'm getting the most out of my rifle that I possibly can. The folks at Speer bullet Co. have been great with their help. Their ballastitions have even taken the time to rum computer models to help develop the loads I'll need so I really don't want to deviate from the powder I'm using.

I'll keep you posted after I polish the sizing die a little.

Baddog

iS THIS A hORNADY DIE,IF SO IVE RUN INTO THIS PROBLEM ALSO AND HAD TO RESET THE DIE DOWN DIFFERENT IN THE PRESS. WHAT KIND OF DIE IS IT? vANGUNSMITH

Hey Baddog, The "obvious" escaped me until just now.

Perhaps the Lot of Cases you are using might have slightly "thin" necks. If you have a good Gun Shop near you with a different brand of 375H&H cases on the shelf, you might want to try them.

You might have a buddy with a 375H&H, or one of the Gun Shop guys that you could trade with on 3-6 cases too.

The previous suggestion Don made to reduce the Expander just a bit will probably fix it for all the cases though.

Best of luck to you.

I don't know if its the cases themselves as they are from different lots and all of them are "once fired". The die set is RCBS with a Lee crimp die.
I still have not polished the sizing plug so thats next on the list after the range today. This AM I have been figuering out my new Chrony so that I can set it up and measure what I have...I'll let you know how it all turns out this evening.

Baddog

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Originally posted by Baddog:

the darn bullet sticks onto the seating plug .......any ideas?

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Yes. I've had this problem, not with the particular bullet you mention, but with another.

I solved the problem by making a small wad of paper and stuffing it into the seating plug. This paper wad is formed to the nose-shape of the bullet with the first bullet you seat using it. The paper becomes tightly compacted, especially if you are seating bullets so that they compress the powder.

When you are finished, you can use a needle to dig the paper wad out of the plug.

Baddog, I had the same problem loading Failsafes for my 375 H&H. My seater left a visible "ring" around the bullet. I could also feel a slight pull after seating the bullet. The bullets were crimped enough that the slight "pull or tug" didn't change the OAL. My solution (through the gracious contributions of members here on AR) was to take the seater plug out of the die. Put it in my drill press and work enough metal out of the plug on the sides to stop the "pull". A couple of sessions at the drill press did the job. I'm sure you can do the same with a dremmel tool as that is where I started the modification but ended on the drill press. Good luck. Mike

Well, first of all, I want to thank all who pitched in with an idea or two. They were all great suggestions and I did finally manage to solve the problem. What I ended up doing was first polish off .oo1" from the sizing die. That helped but didn't solve the problem totally so next I put in the Lee crimping die and after starting the bullet I gave each round a slight squeez...not much just a touch to tighten up the neck of the case. That ended all the problems. By cutting a new chamfer on the seating plug I eliminated the "ring" on the bullet and all is well.
As far as the results at the range...I managed to tighten my groups by 50% from the factory loads but I'm still working on bringing the soilds down a bit to the same point of impact as the soft points. Since both loads are max. and the solids are giving me a higher vo I'm planning on reducing the powder by 1/2 gn. steps and see if I can't fine tune them.
The velocities for my "factory copies" are within 25fps. of factory and the load for the solid is almost 100fps faster so I think I can afford to reduce them a bit. In case your wondering the case expansion base line was .510" and all of my loads ended right at .511" I assume that means the pressures are within safe limits............any input is welcome.

Baddog

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In case your wondering the case expansion base line was .510" and all of my loads ended right at .511" I assume that means the pressures are within safe limits...

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Hey Baddog, Glad to hear you got your problem whipped. Not real sure if that method will provide the best accuracy for you, but I've not tried doing as you described and it may work great.

It sounds as if you are measuring across the Belt with a set of 0.001" capable Calipers instead of a set of 0.0001" capable Micrometers. This would be Case Head Expansion(CHE) and has been in use for a long time by many knowledgeable reloaders. I would encourage you to take the CHE measurement in the exact same spot from before and after the shot on the Belt. And of course, average the results of 3-5 shots.

As well as CHE works, I still have the best luck with Pressure Ring Expansion(PRE) which is the widest diameter forward of the Belt on a fired case. But, you must either Full Length Resize or Partial-Full length Resize in order for PRE to work.

Both CHE & PRE can be effected by the number of reloads on the case being used as well as the strength of the load. But, you probably know that.

From what you posted, including the Velocities, it sounds as if you are inside the SAFE MAX. You did not mention if you are below or at the Loads listed in your Manual, so that would be one additional indicator if in fact you are below those Loads.

I would strongly discourage anyone to just keep dumping in Powder until some arbitrary, randomly picked velocity is attained on a chronograph. The Factory Ammo is often made using Powder, and in some situations techniques, that we relaoders just don't have access to. Some Loads are and some aren't. Due to that, just going by a velocity can be misleading and has the potential to be dangerous.

Also agree that adjusting the Velocities might be the best way to get better accuracy if you are "Crimping". Don't forget your Seating Depth also works to Fine Tune groups. Not sure how well that would work on Crimped Loads. Might work fine, might not, just have to try them to see how well they do.

Glad to hear you got the original issue resolved to your satisfaction. Best of luck to you.

HotCore:

Thanks for the info. As a matter of fact I'm taking the measurement with a set of Starret dial calipers at the point before the belt on the widest part of the case. All the brass is once fired and full length sized...Being relativly new to reloading I'm not that familuar with the nomenclature, but I guess that would be the PRE measurement then. Taking your advice I'll switch over to a micrometer to get a more accurate reading in the future.

At this point I'm at 1/2gn. below max. on both loads. After talking with the bullet company, the tech. recomended going up with the soft points by 1/2gn. to max and down 1/2gn. with the solids and he felt that would bring both loads to the same point of impact without exceeding max. safe loading.

One interesting cahrastic I have fornd is that the solids, even with a flat nose are flying faster than the soft points. This we feel is due to the fact that I'm using the tungsten core solids and they are 1.3 times heavier than lead. That translates to a shorter 300gn. bullet with less barrel friction.

Being hunting rounds I figured the safest route is to crimp. To many horrer stories about bullets shifting in the mag. to take a chance. I have played with bullet depth in the beginning stages of this project and found that my rifle likes the soft points at 3.600" and the solids at 3.445".

I'm always looking for advice and I am pretty thick skined so feel free to let me know if you find anything I'm screwing up on....I want to do this right or not at all.

Baddog