I am still waiting for the suppressor delivery for this rifle:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1022351/m/6461058072

But I will get it in week or two (I hope). It's main purpose is to reduce sound for regular supersonic loads, but I would like to try some subsonic hunting and/or plinking loads too.

I already sent email to Samereier - https://samereier.de/en/reduzierhuelsen/ if it is possible to make .338 LM cases with reduced internal volume for that purpose.

But there are commercially available subsonic loads using regular brass. Anybody here experienced with loading .338 LM or any similar cartridges for subsonic velocities?

What bullet to use? What bullet will open up at subsonic range for hunting purposes? My twist rate is 1-10", so I will prefer heaviest possible bullet for this twist.

BTW cartridges can be single fed, so maybe some flat point/Keith design hollow point possible.

Any suggestions?

Thank you for help,

Jiri

Video of shooting .338 LM with suppressor and subsonic load. I will get the same suppressor.

https://www.facebook.com/Rome....ic/2239546702980454/

Why would anyone want to shoot a high performance round, slowly? Sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I may be missing something. But I have three 338 Lapuas and I definitely don't want them to go slower. I have a 33 Winchester for that.
I did notice in the video that you can hear the bullet ricochet off the steel target.....at my range that would get you in jail.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Why would anyone want to shoot a high performance round, slowly? Sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I may be missing something. But I have three 338 Lapuas and I definitely don't want them to go slower. I have a 33 Winchester for that.
I did notice in the video that you can hear the bullet ricochet off the steel target.....at my range that would get you in jail.

It's main purpose is to reduce sound for regular supersonic loads, but I would like to try some subsonic hunting and/or plinking loads too.

Anything unclear in that statement?

Jiri

quote:

Why would anyone want to shoot a high performance round, slowly?

Perhaps to be as quite as possible?

Then why have a cartridge so huge when you want to shoot it slow?
I still don't understand it. Yes, I understand your words. Just not the concept.
I would recommend you use a 338 Federal or something much smaller and easier to manage, if you aren't going to use the 100 grains of powder capacity.

Ask here - https://samereier.de/en/reduzierhuelsen/ why they produce reduced capacity cases for many different high power calibers, .50 BMG included.


Regular loads:

Long range target shooting / fun - with silencer instead of muzzle brake, other people on shooting range will not hate you.

Long range hunting - with silencer instead of muzzle brake, you will not disturb people 2 miles away. Also, you don't have to wear hear protection or light hear protection is enough.


Subsonic loads:

Short range hunting - (100 m or so) fox or other pests (feral cats, whatever) very close to populated areas (we can hunt as close as 200 m far from fences of property used for living) with subsonic loads, so virtually no sound will disturb people in the village.

Finishing shot - if something get wrong, you can use reduced power ammo for close range finishing shot. Handgun not permitted here for this purpose.

Kid/lady/novice fun / target shooting at shooting range - no recoil, no loud sound, no fear. But feel of regular sniper rifle.


Conclusion:

And the best is, I can be "European" instead of "American", so I need just one superb rifle with exceptional scope for multiple tasks. Not (sometimes junk) multiple rifles with different (sometimes junk) multiple scopes in multiple calibers for every single task mentioned above. Also, I can change multiple places in one day, from morning shooting range, midday pest control to evening mouflon or wild boar hunting. Also, it is very common here: You wait for boars for example, but fox will appear. You can kill the fox without scaring wild boars. With one single rifle. Also here you can't leave any firearm in the car. You can lost firearms license for it.

(Of course, it is not rifle for backpack hunting, driven game or any other hunting where a lot of walking with the rifle is necessary or shooting free hand.)

For similar reasons, I load my .500 S&W revolver for different power levels, from very weak to maximum possible.

Is it clear? Can we now discuss possible subsonic loads for that rifle, because we are in reloading forum. My question was "how", not "why".

Jiri

Jiri,

I load subsonic ammo for practically any caliber I wish.

It is not rocket science really.

You need fast powders, like those for pistols and shotguns.

Bulky ones are best, like UNIQUE.

Others like Green Dot and Red Dot also work.

Depending on case size, I use anything from 12 grains in a 223 case up to 50 grains in a 577 T.Rex case.

All depends on how much velocity you wish to have.

Saeed:

Thank you very much. My concern is if it is or it is not a problem to have just like 40 % fill rate. Or do you use any fillers?

Jiri

I only use filler in very large cases like the 577 T.Rex.

Never in any others.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Jiri,

I load subsonic ammo for practically any caliber I wish.

It is not rocket science really.

You need fast powders, like those for pistols and shotguns.

Bulky ones are best, like UNIQUE.

Others like Green Dot and Red Dot also work.

Depending on case size, I use anything from 12 grains in a 223 case up to 50 grains in a 577 T.Rex case.

All depends on how much velocity you wish to have.

Correct I also have done it many of times.

One example is a 315gr hard cast using Red Dot. Out of my 25 inch 416 Taylor at 950fps is really quite.

Didn't mean to make you mad.
Silencers are not legal where I am so no one uses them.
Noise is part of shooting. That is what ear plugs are for.

Yes no need for fillers when using fast shotgun or pistol powders and only standard primers needed too.
I load subsonic in my 404 Jeffery, velocity 1300 - 1400fps with 22.0grs of Red Dot or Vectan AS, an equivalent powder. I do use cast bullets rather than load down expensive jacketed stuff.

While I use suppressors on other rifles I'm not about to thread the muzzle of my Oberndorf Type A Mauser but the 404 cast loads at this level are quiet enough.

I think accurate 5744 is popular for reduced loads. If your barrel has a good twist, pick the heaviest bullet you can find and work up a load based on example data. I played with a subsonic 223 and heavy FMJ bullets actually worked great loaded backwards.

eagle27:

1300-1400 fps is not subsonic, it is just reduced load

jpl:

5744 is good for reduced loads, but too slow for subsonic

I will try VV N32C, which I have on stock.

QL:

Cartridge          : .338 Lapua Mag.
Bullet             : .338, 300, Lapua Scenar GB528  G7
Useable Case Capaci: 98.462 grain H2O = 6.393 cm3
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.681 inch = 93.50 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0,5% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-05,0   29    13,30   1009     678   13544   1379    100,0    3,094
-04,5   30    13,37   1012     682   13630   1386    100,0    3,084
-04,0   30    13,44   1014     686   13717   1393    100,0    3,073
-03,5   30    13,51   1017     689   13804   1400    100,0    3,063
-03,0   30    13,58   1020     693   13891   1407    100,0    3,053
-02,5   30    13,65   1023     697   13978   1414    100,0    3,044
-02,0   30    13,72   1025     700   14065   1420    100,0    3,034
-01,5   30    13,79   1028     704   14152   1427    100,0    3,025
-01,0   31    13,86   1031     708   14239   1434    100,0    3,015
-00,5   31    13,93   1034     712   14326   1441    100,0    3,006
+00,0   31    14,00   1036     715   14414   1448    100,0    2,996
+00,5   31    14,07   1039     719   14501   1455    100,0    2,987
+01,0   31    14,14   1042     723   14588   1462    100,0    2,978
+01,5   31    14,21   1044     727   14676   1469    100,0    2,969
+02,0   32    14,28   1047     730   14763   1476    100,0    2,960
+02,5   32    14,35   1050     734   14851   1482    100,0    2,951

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     31    14,00   1037     717   14569   1447    100,0    2,982
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     31    14,00   1035     714   14237   1450    100,0    3,010

I have 300 Lapua Scenar 300gr bullets I have no use for, so will be good for load development. Also looks it will be stable (Sg 1.48)

But this bullet behaves just like FMJ, not good killer. I need subsonic hunting bullet.

Jiri

I dont get the whole "sub-sonic" trend either. Guns go bang. So what, who cares? If I want to do my best sneaky Rambo impression I will just get out the trusty old re curve.

Brave new world I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
I dont get the whole "sub-sonic" trend either. Guns go bang. So what, who cares? If I want to do my best sneaky Rambo impression I will just get out the trusty old re curve.

Brave new world I guess.

Have you at least read the purpose I need it for?

Jiri

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
eagle27:

1300-1400 fps is not subsonic, it is just reduced load

Jiri

Absolutely true, I was having a bit of a senior moment there. Maybe in the southern hemisphere at sea level they're subsonic

Anyway the reduced loads are much quieter than full on loads and certainly very pleasant to shoot.

Update:

Ordered 220gr Peregrine Subsonic Expanding bullet - http://peregrinebullets.co.za/subsonic-hunting/

And Hawk Bullets do custom runs of their bullets with thin double annealed jackets and slightly modified bullet construction for subsonic use. Will order some 300 grainers there.

Also here maybe make subsonic hunting bullets - https://makerbullets.com/prodd...hp?prod=338300SUBREX , tried to email them with no response.

Jiri

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
I dont get the whole "sub-sonic" trend either. Guns go bang. So what, who cares? If I want to do my best sneaky Rambo impression I will just get out the trusty old re curve.

Brave new world I guess.

Your car is required by law to have a muffler.

Suppressor is home:

Nice.  Beautiful quilt there.  Where did you get that from?  
Is that a Scorpio it's on?  What are the gun laws like over in the Czech Republic?  Do you need any hoops to go through or stamps or tattoos to get your silencer? Can you shoot out your back yard? I hear some countries in EU require silencers. ROME are pretty spendy compered to the common silencer fodder made here in the US.

quote:

Originally posted by The Lord of Lawn Chair:
Nice.  Beautiful quilt there.  Where did you get that from?  
Is that a Scorpio it's on?  What are the gun laws like over in the Czech Republic?  Do you need any hoops to go through or stamps or tattoos to get your silencer? Can you shoot out your back yard? I hear some countries in EU require silencers. ROME are pretty spendy compered to the common silencer fodder made here in the US.

I have no idea why the US makes such a fuss about it.

I make one when I wish!

Ever come up to a red light right behind that guy with the 6"lifted GMC 4X4 with the 454 and 3 inch straight pipes for exhaust?  BLAP, BLAP, BAPIEDY BLAP BLAB.... Light turns green;   BRAAAHHHH!,  BRAHHHH, BRAAAA!!!!.... BLAP BLAPA, POW....You think to your self, "What an ass hole...   No consideration for those around him...."

My neighbor lives about a quarter mile away and works like 12 hour shifts at the paper mill, up to six days in a row.  Then he gets three days off.  He gets up in the morning around 11:00 and goes out on his patio in his bath robe and slippers, with a cup of coffee, listens to the birds chirping, the deer browsing through the woods in his back yard....
Mean while I just got done hanging my targets at 50 and 100 yards....

POW........  ...POW.....  ... POW.... 5 shot group.  He looks in my general direct and says to himself,  "What an ass hole.... No consideration for those around him...."

I am on cell phone only, will answer after weekend.

338 LM, 250 gr Lapua Scenar factory ammo:

https://youtu.be/jrASGdvHdcc

Pretty effective suppressor

quote:

Originally posted by The Lord of Lawn Chair:
Nice.  Beautiful quilt there.  Where did you get that from?  
Is that a Scorpio it's on?  What are the gun laws like over in the Czech Republic?  Do you need any hoops to go through or stamps or tattoos to get your silencer? Can you shoot out your back yard? I hear some countries in EU require silencers. ROME are pretty spendy compered to the common silencer fodder made here in the US.

All ordered from local Victrix/Rome distributor here in the Czech Republic.

Suppressors are legal here, but you need gun license (with some exceptions like air rifle suppressors). It is classified here as firearm or main firearm part class C, which means you don't need any permit for buying one (gun license is necessary), but you have to register suppressor at your police gun department in 10 working days. Registration costs about 13 USD.

(For B class you need permit prior to buying one - they will give it to you automatically for those 13 USD or so. I can also carry hollow point ammo for self defense and can have unlimited magazine capacity - technically, it is forbidden by EU, but police will give you exception, if you want, for 10 USD. So it is OK with EU laws Laser, thermal sights, night visions OK here too.)

I can't shoot at backyard legally here (you can from air rifles up to .25 cal and other class D guns - guns you don't need any gun license for).

You can hunt (if you are member or have hunting permission in area - very simplified example) at least 200 meters from the fence of property used for living.

Rome suppressors are spendy, but well made and working great. You get what you pay for.

Jiri