I have always used spitzer bullets in my bolt action rifles to hunt deer here in the East and in Canada.
I was wondering if anyone out there could tell me why you would shoot a round nose bullet out of a bolt action rifle at a black bear when the same weight bullet (.308 @ 180 gn) in a spitzer has much more velocity and energy, even at only 50yds than the round nose.
A buddy of mine is arguing with me that the round nose will have a better terminal effect than the spitzer on a black bear.
I certainly do not agree.
I beleive the only reason for round nose bullets are because there are still some firearms out there with tubular mags, which as we all know shouldn't be loaded with spitzers because of the inherent saftey issues of a pointed bullet hitting the primer of the cartridge in front of it in the mag.
Nosler partitions (just an example) are not round nose bullets but are known for their terminal performance on game, so why would someone use a round nose?
I would like to hear your opinions.
I could be wrong, but I feel in a bolt action rifle the spitzer bullet will beat the round nose hands down.

Some guy did a heck of a lot of testing of bullets and without a doubt the round nosed bullets did appear to do a better job of terminal performance on cup and core bullets.
Sorry.....your friend wins this time!

PETEM,

While I too use spirepoints and ballistic tips exclusively, I do remember when I bought my 30-06, and bought a box of 180 gr. Roundnoses because that was the only ammo the dealer had at the time. I thought I would just shoot them out at the range and then start reloading.

Well, one day I had the itch to go groundhog hunting, so I took the roundnoses out and I shot a groundhog at about 35 yds.

It was obscene.... all I saw in the scope was a ball of red mist... and when I went to pick up the hog, there was a 2 inch piece of skin holding the two halves together.

Upon seeing that, I decided the round nose would not penetrate very well on large game at 30-06 velocities, and went with the spitzer style bullets.

Still, I have had spitzers that traveled a remarkable distance through a deer carcass, and perhaps the explosive nature of the roundnose would epend energy and penetrate well enough in a deer or a bear to do the bang flop on them.

I've never shot a bear but since moving to WV, I've shot several deer using a 154gr Horn RN bullet from a 7-08. It is awesome the way it will hammer a deer down. I'm gonna guess that under 100yards (or so) a RN would out perform a spitzer with regards to engery transfer.

RN bullets are unfashionable these days - probably due to less impressive paper ballistics. In practice, I have found RN bullets to hammer game at short to medium distances.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by PETEM:
...I could be wrong, but I feel in a bolt action rifle the spitzer bullet will beat the round nose hands down.

Hey Pete, It really just depends on the way the particular SP or RN is "designed". Not all of them use the same Internal Design.

Check out Gary Sciuchetti's Bullet Test when you have a bit of time. Be sure to look at the Remington RN and how well it did compared to ALL THE OTHERS.

Then tell me what you think about "some" RNs.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

I load both styles of bullets and like both. For most of my hunting which is 95 percent under 150 yards and 100 percent under 200 yards I just don't notice a superiority in trajectory. velocity or impact with the pointed bullets. What I have noticed is that the entrance holes and wound channels seem larger sooner with the RN's.

Spitzer bullets only show their true value @ 250yds and longer. The 180gr Remington RN in 30-06 has always been popular in the east and no rifles were ever designed with a tubular mag for the 06' with that said a round nose will transfer energy better and expand to a greater diameter. I truly doubt it would be explosive but just hammer that deer or bear a little harder than the spitzer. Your buddy wins, old timers knew a thing or two and those round nose bullets are just the ticket for heavy brush, ie; short range work on deer and bears and even moose or elk. With that said i will always go with the more accurate load,black bears are not that tough to put down, but you have to hit em in the right spot.

First, I would like to thank all who offered an opinion.
Second, I still like the spitzer type bullets, but all who replied cannot be wrong.
It seems all are in agreement that the round nose is the better choice.
I've handloaded both and when I hunt I feel more confident when I using a more accurate bullet.
I understand that 90% of shot opputunities will be under 100 yds.
At 100 yds the accuracy of the round nose isn't bad, it's just not nearly as accurate as the spitzer.
I've also done alot of web serfing since this post and have found that the round nose might be a better choice.
I will conceede the arguement for the time being, but I will use a quality spitzer type bullet on medium size game before I use the round nose.
Thanks again for all your opinions

quote:

Originally posted by PETEM:
...It seems all are in agreement that the round nose is the better choice.

Hey Pete, I didn't say that. But there are some RNs designed for certain applications better than other Standard Grade Bullets, but not all of them.

quote:

I've handloaded both and when I hunt I feel more confident when I using a more accurate bullet.

Me too. If you happen to have a 30cal(30-30, 300Sav, 308Win, 30-06) and you want to see some impressive grouping with an inexpensive RN, try the 150gr Hornady RN. It is a "2-diameter" design which allows the part forward of the Cannelure to ride on top of the Lands and the aft portion to drive inside the Lands. That helps center the Bullet and reduces the Pressure. Great design that they should use on ALL their Cannelured Bullets, but they don't. Remington is doing it on some Pistol/Revolver Bullets.

quote:

At 100 yds the accuracy of the round nose isn't bad, it's just not nearly as accurate as the spitzer.

That may be true for some of them, but it just depends on each rifle about what it shoots the best.

quote:

I will conceede the arguement for the time being, but I will use a quality spitzer type bullet on medium size game before I use the round nose.

Nothing wrong with the Spitzer design either. The entire spectrum of the Hunt needs to be taken into consideration to pick "The Best Bullet" for the task at hand. Lots of great Standard Grade and Premium Grade Bullets will work, and work very well.

Like the old fellow said, "Keep an open mind Grasshopper and many things become true that were thought to be false."

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills (with those SPs).

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core: ....
Check out Gary Sciuchetti's Bullet Test when you have a bit of time. Be sure to look at the Remington RN and how well it did compared to ALL THE OTHERS.

Then tell me what you think about "some" RNs.
....

Hey Hot Core thats a great report you offred the link too. Whoever did that certainly spent alot of time just putting this all together.

That report confirms my choice of a Rem RN or a Sierra RN for loads out of my TC Contender in 30-30 and 35 Rem. where velocities are in 1900-2000 for deer and hogs.

quote:

Originally posted by PETEM:
I was wondering if anyone out there could tell me why you would shoot a round nose bullet out of a bolt action rifle at a black bear when the same weight bullet (.308 @ 180 gn) in a spitzer has much more velocity and energy, even at only 50yds than the round nose.

Hey Ray, The last time I checked he still had some of those Charts available. Only $15 which includes Shipping. Sure is a great addition to any Reloading Room.

Gary D. Sciuchetti
14610 E. Bill Gulch Road
Mead, WA 99021

gsciuchetti@yahoo.com

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.