OK. I'll bite. What's the difference?

One of my manuals says the WCF was just an old designation for 30-30 Winchester Center Fire. But I saw a die set that stipulated 30-30 WCF.

kk

kk,

I sure thought they were the same cartridge...BCB

one and the same...

30-30 win
30 wcf
30-30 wcf
30-30
7.62x51 Rimmed

They are all the same.
Started life as the 30 Winchester Center Fire, which was shortened to 30 WCF. The shooting public nick-named it the 30-30 because it was 30 caliber had originally used 30 grains of the new smokeless powder. 30-30 stuck.

Dave Thomas summed it up the best. Totally complete.

Dave I also love your hamburgers!

kk,

As the others have said, they are one and the same. Dave Thomas's presented an excellent understanding of the other names for this vintage cartridge.

Here's the complete list as I know it:

.30 WINCHESTER
.30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS
.30 W.C.F. (Winchester Center Fire)
.30-6-100 (Short Range cartridge with a 100 gr. Lead bullet)
.30 MARLIN
.30-30 MARLIN SMOKELESS
.30-30 S.
.30-30 W.C.F.
.30-30 Win.
.30 American (Federal case, small primer)
DWM 543 (Germany)
7.62x51R (Europe)

Today what is known as the .30-30 began life as the .30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS. In 1891, the Winchester Repeating Arms Company first began experimenting with smokeless powder to develop a higher velocity smokeless cartridge that would bear the Winchester name.

The resultant .30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS cartridge which carried the .30 W.C.F. (Winchester Center Fire) designation on the head stamp, first appeared in Winchester's catalog No. 55, dated August, 1895.

A short time later, the Marlin Firearms Company, announced their version of this cartridge chambered in their model 1893 rifle. Since Marlin did not manufacture ammunition (Winchester did), it worked closely with the Union Metallic Cartridge Company (U.M.C.) located in Bridgeport, Connecticut.

U.M.C. replicated the .30 WINCHESTER SMOKELESS cartridge and for a very short time it was called the .30 Marlin, but by 1897 they renamed it the .30-30 since 30 grains of smokeless powder was initially used in this cartridge. Cartridges were head stamped U.M.C. / .30-30 S. The S was dropped from the headstamp within a few years.

.30-30 W.C.F. was the transitional name used by Winchester in the 1940's before they officially changed their designation to the .30-30 Win. after WW II.

And the rest is history .................

w30wcf

[ 09-15-2003, 01:38: Message edited by: w30wcf ]

wow, thanks w30wcf! I have to print this history lesson and stick it in my Madis book. Dale