The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading The Lawyers have gotten to SPEER!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| The Lawyers have gotten to SPEER! | Login/Join |
| new member |
I picked up Speer #14 on a whim the other day, and WOW…. The lawyers have really took the wind out of there sales. Here are a few examples: 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser There are now two sections, one for the Military Swedes, and one for “Strong Commercial Actions†Data: 140 Grain Spitzer #13 IMR 4064 35.5 – 39.5 RL 22 44.0-48.0 #14 (Military) IMR 4064 31.0 – 33.0 RL 22 38.0 -40.0 (Commercial) IMR 4064 34.0 – 36.0 RL 22 43.0 - 45.0 I guess we all will have to moth ball or old Swedes…(NOT).. Dang shame when the “Lawyers†and “Accountants†run a company instead of the folks who know what they are doing…. I looked at a couple of other loads and they are reduced across the board…. Guess I will quit shooting Speer bullets… Didn’t like them much anyway. | ||
|
| One of Us |
I looked at the same book today, and was pleasewd with some of the loads. Most of the manuals leave a prety wide safty margin. When I get a rifle like a Modern say 7X57, I usually start at or very near book max. knowing they are keeping preasure lo. with a more modern round like say a .308 I would,nt do this , but I been doing this along time and I think I have blown 2 primers . ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
|
| One of Us |
Substantially reducing charges of slow burning powder isn't a good idea either. By fixing one problem, they may have created another... | |||
|
| one of us |
I don't understand your logic. You are still free to load what you want in your rifle using other data. If you hand load you have already assumed responsibility for your own safety. | |||
|
one of us |
Could be or it could be that the data mentioned was done/re-done by Alliant or Federal and not Speer,as they said in the manual.I don't have mine handy to check and see at the moment. Have a Great Day and God Bless | |||
|
| One of Us |
In reality, I guess "max" loads have been historically "cautious." I've been handloading for over 40 years and it took most of those before I "stumbled upon" the knowledge that "max" isn't "max." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ditto. And, how do lawyers enter the decision to have two sections for the same chambering? That's just common sense. | |||
|
one of us |
Keep in mind too the military rifles section also covers the old Krag and M94s, not just M96 mausers. ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
|
| Administrator |
Gentlemen, One should use the data in the reloading manuals as a guide only. Years ago, when we first started reloading, we used to take everything written at face value. Experience has taught us that is not the case. | |||
|
| One of Us |
And often times it is. I have had rifles along the way that were max as much as two grains below the book max. A combination of SAAMI minimum chambers, and "slow" barrels, or perhaps the sun not being in the right position. | |||
|
| One of Us |
What Saeed said +1. | |||
|
one of us |
Yes, indeed! "A cheerful heart is good medicine." | |||
|
| One of Us |
What does Speer #14 say about 44mag 240 gr 2400?
| |||
|
| new member |
No change for the 240 gr & 2400 in Speer 14 from 13. | |||
|
| one of us |
The .22 Hornet has changed in the last several Speer manuals. Speer says it is because SAAMI has down rated the operating pressure of the round. Things can change over time. Take a look at some of the Speer data for the .25/06 when it was a wildcat. It is much hotter than later data and the reason is explained in the later Speer Manuals. The original Speer rifle had a long throat. I also doubt it was a pressure test barrel so the loads were determined just like we do it....by looking at primers. Anyone that relies on a single data source for is going out on a limb. All it takes is a typo to get you into trouble. So use about 5 manuals if you can. Throw out the high and the low loads and use caution with the data you have left. | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| one of us |
+1 | |||
|
| one of us |
That was pretty funny. I am not sure that I have ever seen or heard of a load book that is better than mediocre. | |||
|
| One of Us |
ireload2, You are are too smart for where you are, so your experiences are Dilbertesque. Being controlled by the stupid and forced to accept the absurd is how you will celebrate life. Buy a copy of Speer 14 and reduce all your handloads at once. | |||
|
One of Us |
Even if it was the work of the "lawyers and accountants" don't blame them... ...blame the jury of your peers who awarded the ridiculous damage claim... ...evn beyond that lawyers and accountants don't make the decision...they advise senior management on "risk"...the decision on what to publish is made on the operational side of a the business. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
There is a pattern for companies: 1) Innovator, risk taker, technically brilliant man starts a company in the garage and grows it big. The company grows exponentially. 2) The company has a few bad quarters, and the founder is replaced with a bean counter tasked with maintaining market share. Veron Speer was a great man. An innovator and risk taker. He caused the company to grow. He retired in 1966. Somewhere between 4 and 8 years after he left, the load book faltered in it's 44 mag load. Now it is run buy low risk seeking management. One could blame the lawyers, the juries, or the management. Or how about blaming the consumer that buys "Speer 14" My first load book was "Speer 12" that came with my Rockchucker Kit. I stared at those loads for a long time before looking for patterns before I realized that the loads for one cartridge were all at different pressures and the start velocities were bogus. I don't blame anyone but myself for having been duped by the info in "Speer 12". | |||
|
| One of Us |
31.g of 4064 with a 140g. bullet is only going to (FART) like a popgun out the M-96 sweed  | |||
|
| one of us |
tnekkcc, I just inherited 3 manuals from a friend that died. They included a Speer #13 which I consider a bad omen. I am really reluctant to go spend money on a Speer #14..... | |||
|
| one of us |
That also includes the guy that I saw right after he blew up a 98 Mauser .243. It had been burned in a fire so he just put a new stock on it and reblued it. And there was the guy that had 2 BARs on the bench and he tried to fire a .270 round in the 7MM REM Mag BAR. It just blew the magazine out the bottom. There are a lot of morons out there that own firearms. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Why? just don't buy the #14 manual! No reason you should let the lawyers win?
31grs? My gawd.... my STARTING load with a 140r partition and IMR4060 was 36grains! I worked it up to 42grs before shifting to IMR4350 which I started at 40gr and worked up to 45grs. Would I use that load in an Obie or an M94? not a farggen chance. a 1916 CG? Nope. Do I feel the least bit concerned about using it in my '43 Husqvarna? Nope, I'd shoot a thousand of them without the least concern because the factory Norma loads FLATTEN the NP primers while my handloads with NP primers didn't. AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I wonder if the load recipes were down graded because modern piezoelectric transducers are being used in their labs, replacing the old copper crusher type pressure sensing equipment. Speer did mention this in Speer 13 on the 375H&H page. As the industry moves from CUP to PSI recipes are bound to change, in some cases maybe a lot. A second cause might be SAAMI, they ordered 4000 CUP down ward pressure change for the 22 Hornet. After which Speer could only recommend one powder (AA1680) for the Hornet because of that pressure reduction. Maybe Speer is just doing what their told by SAAMI. Time will tell if we see these changes in other newly published load books. | |||
|
one of us |
greenjoy, As long as the strain gages are accurate, calibrated, and have the necessary frequency response, surely they are a great leap ahead in indicating real pressures as opposed to the copper crusher method. I agree that these changes can be a great thing in the future, even if chambers vary, etc. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading The Lawyers have gotten to SPEER!
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia