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Hello everyone, I'm putting together a 30-06 load for a friend to hunt Wisconsin deer. Mostly it will be a brush load, but there are chances to take a shot up to 300 yards too. My friend is fairly new to hunting, and I want to make sure he doesn't "blow up" a lighter weight bullet. And because he won't be doing a lot of shooting during the year (though I want to encourage him to shoot a lot!), I want to use an accurate bullet. Also, because we're only talking Whitetails, I don't think he needs a premium, at least not at conventional '06 velocities. All that said, I'm thinking about a round-nose 180 grainer. I did a brief search...and Hornady looks good. But I'm also wondering about Speer's rendition? It has a little better b.c., while still exposing a lot of lead at the tip. Some have found it "a little hard," though, which concerns me on sub 200 lb. Whitetail. What would you use? Thanks! friar p.s. also posted in Big Game & Med-bores Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | ||
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Most deer in Wisconsin have 1/2" steel plates on their sides and we usually use tanks to hunt them.....very much unlike those in Minnesota that are shot with shoulder arms. Here we use Bradleys, Shermans and Tigers from Germany....there it's remingtons and Winchesters and from Germany the Mausers. I suggest you send your friend to the local Sherman dealer for his shooting needs. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Well either one will do just fine...but a it isn't going to be a 300 yd load...and why would anybody new to hunting be taking a 300 yard shot is beyond me. I would suggest you have him sight in 2" high at a hundred and tell him to hold dead on and not take a shot over 200 yds Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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vapo, That was a good one. Viking guy, Using a roundnose bullet doesn't mean it will go through the brush better, quite the contrary. When that large area of lead hooks onto a branch it tends to make the bullet tumble more than a Spire point bullet that tends to zip right through the brush. I've got a good article from "American Hunter" from a few years back and they tested all the popular bullet/loads, shooting them into 5 sheets of plywood and placing a big target on the other end. Conclusion of the test showed bullets with the most lead exposed did the worst. 44 Magnum was worst, best was a 223REM FMJ, 2nd was a Win. 150PP 7mm Rem mag, I believe it was. That being said, buy some 150-165 Hornady Spire points and load them up with 52 and 50grs. of RE15 and have at it. Jay | |||
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I would "mirror" Jays comments. I've always wanted to try round nose bullet because I do believe they can be really accurate at 100 yds. BUT I would tell you just go get some cheap hornady spire point flat bases and you will be (most likeely)..very very happy. The 180 spire point flat base and bt have been great shooters for me over the years....and they will work wonders on deer. | |||
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Vapo, I think, said it best. What my buddy really needs is a 88mm shell @ 2000 METERS/second to ensure adequate penetration on hardened targets.  But you put it well, JG, that he should not consider it (or any bullet) able to bust brush. I simply wanted the RN as a foolproof way of getting good expansion (and I realize too that conventional spitzers are 99.9999% reliable) and good penetration. Plus, it's kind of "old-school," which my friend would definitely appreciate.  If he practices and feels he can take a longer shot, we'll definitely change over to a regular partition or accubond or some variation. My only "overarching" concern is avoiding a blow-up on a shoulder blade or something bizzare. Again, thanks everyone! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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Get rid of the round nose idea. Get some 165gr Sierra flat based spire points. They will put down any deer in North America. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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I've nothing against spire-pointed bullets, but if you like round-nosed bullets for any soft-skinned animal such as deer, don't be talked out of using them just to conform to someone else's preference. I've used both spire-pointed and round-nosed bullets for more than 50 years primarily for deer, elk & moose, and properly loaded and placed, they all work fine. For low cost non-premium bullets in lower energy cartridges, RN bullets have always given me very reliable expansion, and the old RN Remington Core-lokts earned their world-wide reputation as reliable deer killers. The Hornadys work well too, so don't be afraid to use them. It's kind of a Ford?, Chevy?, or Dodge? thing........ My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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AC, Hush you mouth, you know Roundnose bullets are just too ugly for shooting at deer.  Friar, You mentioned Partitions and Accubonds, no need for them on deer either. A damn decent bullet is a 165SST or SP, thats all you need, and they won't blow up on you or your buddy. Used a Hornady 165SP out of a 308 back in '93, very nice hole, in and out through ribs @90yds. SST will expand a bit more than the SP. Jay | |||
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Well, I have to admit RN slugs don't have the lines of, say, Morgan Fairchild. On the other hand, neither does the guy who comes to empty/clean my septic tank every 5-7 years. Still have to say that, for the money involved, they both certainly get things done without my having to develop skills I'd just as soon not acquire....(like advanced spear chucking or interpretive shoveling techniques). My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I agree, but as I think of loaded RNs, they do remind me more of Dolly Parton than Ms. Twiggy. | |||
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I've never hunted deer where at some time of the day or hunt the potential of a 250 yard shot wasn't real. If I was to hunt where that wasn't the case I'd use round nose bullets in everything I hunt with. Here in Wisconsin, while hunting the woods, the potentiasl for long shots are always there. Spire points are whats best in these situations and they buck brush as well as round noses. That said the round noses are better in terminal performance and there's data to support that statement. I just haven't found the reason to trade the ranging characteristics of the spitzers for the terminal performance gains as the spitzers kill deer as effectively anyway. The only round nose bullets on my loading bench anymore are some 220 grain 30 cals used to load a few rounds for Griz while elk hunting.....and that too is likely a croc as I wouldn't have time to change ammo anyway. Loose the roundnoses.....life will continue without them. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Hey just screw everyone and go with the best of both worlds A 180gr Speer mag tip. Dead is dead though so go with the bullets with the best looking box and that look the best in your belt. | |||
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Interesting post on the Mag Tip. I just decided to take them on a plains game hunt, as they shot the best groups of any thing I had. Hope they are a tougher bullet than the normal Hot Core. Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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I loaded some bulk 180 RN flat base bullets for a friend in a 30 Ackley short. The load was 65 grains of 4350 @2900 fps. They shot well out of his gun and 5 shots grouped around .5. He took the gun to Canada and shot 2 Caribou at 400 yds with one shot each. Another friend used RN bullets to take cow elk with one shot each. I've picked up a box of RN Speer's I want to reload in my '06 for shots out to 300 yds, maybe a little more. Try them, you will like them. | |||
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