Need a lil help please. Found a dozen or so sealed plastic containers of Bofors EB-5 powder. I have done the Google thing and have learned little except that Bofors is Swedish and associated with Vihtavuori, Norma, and others. Any info on the EB-5 would be appreciated. I just hate to see it sitting there on the floor of the gun shop with an inch of dust on it. Thanks for the help.

Phillip

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Originally posted by phillipd:
Need a lil help please. Found a dozen or so sealed plastic containers of Bofors EB-5 powder. I have done the Google thing and have learned little except that Bofors is Swedish and associated with Vihtavuori, Norma, and others. Any info on the EB-5 would be appreciated. I just hate to see it sitting there on the floor of the gun shop with an inch of dust on it. Thanks for the help.

Phillip

Let me give a general warning about old gunpowder. I have written extensively about issues with old gunpowder, this is a recent thread. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=768839

Basically, unless the stuff is virtually free, I would walk away from gunpowder older than 20 years old. I am currently having age issues, cracked case necks, with AA4064 that I purchased around 1996, the cracked case necks tell me the powder is out gassing excessive levels of nitric acid gas.

Thanks for the advice SlamFire. Age was one thing I was hoping to determine. New enough to come in plastic, but that can still be old. Mainly I'm just curious. This is in a very busy gunshop, just wondering why its still there.

Phillip

Twenty year old powder is new to me; I routinely use far older powder than that. With IMR stuff, if it smells like ether it is good. Other powder, if it is clean and no acid smell, it is good. To me.
Yes, I have read all your horror stories.
There is no way that M1 blew up like that with 4895 powder.

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Originally posted by dpcd:
Twenty year old powder is new to me; I routinely use far older powder than that. With IMR stuff, if it smells like ether it is good. Other powder, if it is clean and no acid smell, it is good. To me.
Yes, I have read all your horror stories.
There is no way that M1 blew up like that with 4895 powder.

I have used powders close to 40 years old, never had any problems at all.

Powders do give you a warning though before you use them.

They do deteriorate visibly and give a different smell if they are bad.

I have had relatively new powders go bad - no idea why as they were stored in the same place as others, and nothing happened top those.

If they look and smell normal, I would use them.

Unless the powder in question has an acidic smell or reddish tint I would go ahead and use it.

Well it's in factory sealed containers stored in a climate controlled gun shop, so it's not the age so much that bothers me as just what is it.

If properly stored, gun powder can be used for decades (I'm still using 30 years old rifle powder). I've experienced that, if degraded (like when stored under variable temmperature/humidity conditions), it turns rancid and smell like it. As long as I smell the regular solvent fragrance, I'll use it with no afterthought. The best way I know for long time powder storage is inside an old retired and unplugged refrigerator, whose isolation will still retain a constant atmosphere.

Call or email Sven-Erik Johansson.

http://www.nordicballistics.com/

I still have some WC870 from WW2 that works fine in 50 BMG.

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I still have some WC870 from WW2 that works fine in 50 BMG.

You ought to give a paper at an Insensitive Munitions Conference titled : Propellant lasts forever because I shoot 75 year old gunpowder!

You might get a standing ovation. Or laughed off the stage.

I have been reloading for more that 50 years now. Properly stored smokeless powder has no life span to speak of. It is designed to be stable for decades or longer.
I have seen these articles so many times by reloaders who do not stop and think about what is really going on to the so called "old" powder.
All powder of a type is blended with other lots of powder to maintain the specific burn rate for that type of powder. An original batch of Bullseye is still used today to make sure the new batches meet the requirements. That powder in the original batch is how old now?
As stated above I still use powder that is very old. As in WWI,Cordite. It was and has been properly stored and has not degraded. My load from 1964 is still good today using the same powder.The inside of the cans still show no rust or any other change in color indicating the powder is breaking down and corroding the surface of the can.
Is there bad powder due to poor manufacture or storage?yes there is.
To say all old powder has degraded and is not up to spect is just tilting at windmills.
Almost all smokeless powder was or is made for the military's of the world. It must be stable,be able to handle the extremes of heat and cold. It has to be able to withstand the vibrations in the cartridge case of the riggers of war and not turn to powder or change its burning characteristics.
All powder,new or old should be worked up to a loading that works for your firearm. If it matches data for the powder,then all is well, It it has a burn rate that is different,mark it as faster/slower as needed.
You should always smell your powder. It should have a solvent odor or no odor at all. It should never have an acrid odor. The powder should look normal,never off color. Photos of what a powder should look like are on the web.
Powder should never be crumbly or have damage the the powders coating(if it has it)
(Italian WWII powder in the 7.35 Carcano ammo can be extremely dangerous. Many of the lots were not neutralized properly after the washing step and the acid has broken down the powder.
It detonates rather than burn. As far as I have heard this powder and it's perspective lots are now long gone.

i dont have any real old powder. but i do have some ammo from the 1960's that shoot just fine. i have been loading for 32 years. never a problem here..

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I have been reloading for more that 50 years now. Properly stored smokeless powder has no life span to speak of. It is designed to be stable for decades or longer.

I am going to be passive aggressive here: What is the life span of gun powder? Just how many decades? Two, three, four, ten, thousand, hundred thousand decades? Is that true for all gunpowders and all lots?

What is it about gunpowder that makes it immortal? Why out of all the elements, compounds in the universe, does it alone have an infinite lifetime?

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An original batch of Bullseye is still used today to make sure the new batches meet the requirements. That powder in the original batch is how old now?

Call Alliant and ask them if they advise storing gunpowder under water and then using it. Also ask them what the life expectancy of gunpowder which has been removed from water storage.

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To say all old powder has degraded and is not up to spect is just tilting at windmills.

Gunpowder is an unstable compound and is deteriorating the day it leaves the factory. The rate of which is highly dependent on many factors, how well it was made originally, and assuming quality manufacture, primarily storage temperature.

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You should always smell your powder. It should have a solvent odor or no odor at all. It should never have an acrid odor. The powder should look normal, never off color. Photos of what a powder should look like are on the web.

I am of the opinion that powder that has no smell should be tossed. I lost over 700 LC Match cases, case neck cracks all of them, with surplus IMR 4895 that did not have a smell. I am of the opinion that when you no longer smell stabilizer, (most common is ethyl centrate) the stabilizer is depleted, excessive amounts of nitric acid gas will come out of the gunpowder, but at levels below a human sense of smell. I had sticky extraction and unusual retorts from this lot, not on every round, but the occasional round.

In actual fact, in first world countries, Ammunition Specialists measure the amount of stabilizer left in military gunpowder and the percentage left determines just when to remove the propellant from inventory. That surplus ammunition and gunpowder on the market was evaluated by a trained technician, backed by test equipment and based on his written procedures, was removed from inventory because it was either 1) unreliable, 2) unstable, 3) or too dangerous to issue.

In poor countries, ammunition is left in place until it auto combusts. Just google ammunition depot explosions. https://www.google.com/search?....27.1468.Iwiy99DwUAQ There is about one per month going off somewhere in the world.

"My powder ate my cases from the inside out!"

I think I saw that headline on a tabloid at the grocery store check out counter just yesterday.

Did it occur to you, Slamfire, that if it were chemical action from deteriorating powder that was causing your cases to crack, that the cracks would be in an area of the case which was exposed to the powder, rather than at the neck, where the seated bullet keeps the powder away from the brass?

But I am truly helped by learning of ammunition auto combustion! Now I'll have to worry about the box of WW-II .45 ACP's my dad brought home going off in the middle of the night, not to mention my wife's grandfather's old supply of .25 Remingtons, some of which have to be right at a century old.

Thanks for all the replies. Have sent Sven an email.

Phillip

Good he is the one who know most about Bofors made powders.

I have about 40 lbs of old Milsurp 4831 the stuff that Jack O'Connor wrote about..It smells good and its black with no red tint and it gives my 06 and 270 about an extra 100 FPS just like Jack said it would..I have had offers of up to $50 a lb. for this old 4831, probably because Jack pushed it. ..I believe the slower powders are safer than the fast burners as I have seen some fast pistol powders go bad more than a few times???

I purchases this old 4831 in a stainless steel 150 lb container with a lock sealed top and a heavy wood crate marked US Military, from and old gunsmith in Twin falls in 1980 and he said he got it 20 years ago, that's old. but its been properly stored in a vacuum type continer

I wouldn't discount what Slamfire said and for sure wouldn't ridicule him unless you know for a fact the long term effects oxides of nitrogen have on brass and I expect most if not all of except Slamfire do not know. Oxides of nitrogen attacking brass and causing stress corrosion cracking is entirely plausible to me. I have seen powder deteriorate, though I have never seen an IMR powder deteriorate and I have seen some pretty old IMR powders. I had some RLR 7 go bad recently, I shot it up in a 458 Lott, except for dusty red residue in the action I couldn't tell the difference.

I reload for a couple buddies and shoot a bunch so my powder is usually pretty fresh,,but my father in law died and all his powder ended up here. I used the rifle powders all for fireforming and plinking with zero problems,even the H-205 performed as advertised.
Pistol powder acted a tiny bit odd a couple of times though. This could have been from being in a unheated house at times and multiple head freeze cycles, H-110 was the greatest offender,they are all gone now.