I was wondering how you guys prep your cases.
I am looking for a fast accurate way to do so.
I am reloading .223 and plan on starting on 30-06

I am always accused of “over prepâ€

1: Sort cases by Head stamp
2: FL Size (Even new Cases)
3: Uniform Primer Pocket (Sinclair tool)
4: Trim all cases to Uniform Length
5: Deburr and Chamfer case mouth
6: Deburr Flash hole
7: Tumble clean all cases
8: Brush Inside Case necks
9: Polish Case necks with 0000 Steel wool
10: Weigh Cases and sort into .5 gr Lots

Have fun

wow I am trying to figure out a way to shave my case over all length faster and more accurate is there a tool of some kind.

You can buy case trimmers and deburring tools, How fast do you want to trim, do you want to see strings of brass flying? If you do they have power trimmers as well.

quote:

Originally posted by 1lostinspace:
wow I am trying to figure out a way to shave my case over all length faster and more accurate is there a tool of some kind.

Buy one of Doug Giraud's case trimmers. It's fast and chamfers the inside and outside of the necks, all at the same time.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by 1lostinspace:
I am trying to figure out a way to shave my case over all length faster and more accurate is there a tool of some kind.

Check out the Possum Hollow trimmer from Sinclair. A bit cheaper than the Giraud or Casey. If you have a drill press that turns 250 RPM or less, you're in business.

The only prep I do on pistol cases is to load them, I tumble them when loaded and then inspect for problems.

On my rifle cases I do the whole schtic.
Fire form and neck size
trim
neck turn/debur
primer pocket ream/clean/debur

It is not very fancy but I use the Lee trimmer.

http://www.leeprecision.com/

I have used them for all my reloading including my 308 F class gun. They made me a trimmer for my 348 win. for about $20.00. Have not used it yet but I have no doubt that it will work just fine.

quote:

Joshua43214

Joshua43214, A while back I remember a published report of a pistol explosion that was traced back to the loaded cartridges being tumbled. Seems the mechanical agitation caused the gunpowder granules to break apart and also to have their coatings (used to control burn rates) removed. I would never tumble a loaded cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeMichalski:
I would never tumble a loaded cartridge.

DITTO!!!!!!

Don

quote:

I am always accused of “over prepâ€

1: Sort cases by Head stamp
2: FL Size (Even new Cases)
3: Uniform Primer Pocket (Sinclair tool)
4: Trim all cases to Uniform Length
5: Deburr and Chamfer case mouth
6: Deburr Flash hole
7: Tumble clean all cases
8: Brush Inside Case necks
9: Polish Case necks with 0000 Steel wool
10: Weigh Cases and sort into .5 gr Lots

This is definitely a lot of prep. But how good do you want your brass to be? What level of accuracy are you trying to achieve? Is this for competition shooting? Plinking? Hunting? The level of accuracy you are trying to achieve will dictate the level of work you need to put into brass prep. Remember, economically, reloading is trading labor for money. You aren't buying new brass, the most expensive component, for each round, but used brass needs some work.

Here's what I do for hunting and "shooting" loads:

1: Sort cases by Head stamp NOT NECESSARY AS I BUY ONLY ONE BRAND OF BRASS PER CALIBER.
2: FL Size (Even new Cases) YES
3: Uniform Primer Pocket (Sinclair tool) MAYBE
4: Trim all cases to Uniform Length ONLY EVERY FEW LOADINGS AS NEEDED.
5: Deburr and Chamfer case mouth YES
6: Deburr Flash hole ONLY THE FIRST LOADING IF AT ALL.
7: Tumble clean all cases YES BUT I USE THE IOSSO LIQUID
8: Brush Inside Case necks YES
9: Polish Case necks with 0000 Steel wool EH GADS, WHAT FOR????
10: Weigh Cases and sort into .5 gr Lots NO

Brass prep does not require nearly as many steps as some shooters put into it. BUT, what you are trying to accomplish will dictate the level of effort to put into brass prep.

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by MikeMichalski:

quote:

Joshua43214

Joshua43214, A while back I remember a published report of a pistol explosion that was traced back to the loaded cartridges being tumbled. Seems the mechanical agitation caused the gunpowder granules to break apart and also to have their coatings (used to control burn rates) removed. I would never tumble a loaded cartridge.

Ouch, thats scary, I've tumbled untold thousands of loaded .45 rounds. I just toss them in for a couple of minutes to clean off all the goop that seems to get every where with lead cast bullets.

Thanks for the tip, I will have to come up with another way of making them more pleasant to handle at the range.

Josh

I've been noticing that lots of folks sort their brass by weight. I've never done this. What is gained by doing this? I do sort my brass by case length as I don't trim everytime. When I'm working up loads I just sort them into a few different groups within a few thousanths of case length, say 2.031-33, 34-36, ect. Should I sort by weight instead?

quote:

Originally posted by cobrajet:
I've been noticing that lots of folks sort their brass by weight. I've never done this. What is gained by doing this?

Consistency. A heavier case means there's more brass, which means there's less case capacity. Just the opposite for lightweight cases. You've really got to be anal to do this procedure for pistol cases.

So if it has to do with case capacity and your not loading compressed loads, does it still make a difference? Does the air space in a case affect accuracy?

1) Yes, weight sorting rifle brass whether compressed loads or not helps accuracy because of uniformity.

2)No, air space (within safe limits) does not affect accuracy.

After all the brass prep is completed and brass is sorted by weight, I add one more step if you are looking for accuracy beyond "hunting accuracy." By this point, all cases within the same weight group are very close to uniform. I'll then mic the case at the expansion ring and cull any cases that are not concentric. Even though all cases in the batch may weigh the same, brass may be heavier on one side than the other. If brass is thicker on one side at the base, it is usually thicker all the way up to the case mouth. This is not always the case, but it is easy enough to check with a Case master or other concentricity gauge. I don't want to turn necks if I don't have to. Even when I do, I usually just knock off the high spots.

MIKEMICHALSKI, sure would like you to post something besides rumors and hearsay about stuff like that. They tumble loaded ammo at the factory as a final step before packaging. Also, how many miles does the powder travel via plane, train and truck before it gets to you without getting altered? How many thousands of miles has loaded ammo traveled via plane, train and hunting car on its way to the hunt and still did its job when it got there. Geez!

Back on task: I consider fire forming my first step in case prep and to that end, I do as little as possible before the case's first firing. I chamfer the mouth, check for overlength (I've never found a factory case that was over long), ensure that they will chamber (I've never had one that wouldn't) and load 'en up and seat a bulk bullet and fire 'em. If I get a really weird flyer while I'm shooting them and practing my bench technique, I toss it.
I don't weigh cases. As posted, the fact that a case weighs the same doesn't mean it is the same. I fire cull my brass. An unexplained flyer is marked and set out. A second occurrence sends it to the scrap bucket. I do turn necks for target cases but it's wasted effort on hunting brass. My experience with Lapua brass is it is true enough not to need it. I want a uniform length and a uniform primer pocket.

STILLBEEMAN *** THANK YOU ***

Where do people come up with this crap about tumbling loaded ammo, I have seen the inside of the FC plant and before boxing it goes into what looks like a cement mixer.

One more time there is no coating on the powder to control burn rate.

Some of you should really think about what you say before you say it.

A thought for some of you it takes appox 23lbs of force to set off a primer. IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN IN A Vib. cleaner ever drop a loaded round on the ground did it go off?

OPEN YOUR MIND AND THINK BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt-ducks:
STILLBEEMAN *** THANK YOU ***

Where do people come up with this crap about tumbling loaded ammo, I have seen the inside of the FC plant and before boxing it goes into what looks like a cement mixer.

One more time there is no coating on the powder to control burn rate.

Some of you should really think about what you say before you say it.

A thought for some of you it takes appox 23lbs of force to set off a primer. IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN IN A Vib. cleaner ever drop a loaded round on the ground did it go off?

OPEN YOUR MIND AND THINK BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH.

Here is a patent abstract for a burning rate deterrent coating. Where did you ever get the idea there are no coatings on powder to control the burn rate?
Deterrent Coating


Read page 325...it was probably written before you were born. From Hatcher's Notebook.

More on deterrent coatings

Promotion of the tumbling of loaded ammo is not a good idea if it is not carefully controlled.
There is always some newbie or bone head that will absent mindedly let his ammo tumble for a weekend. It is possible that such tumbling could cause a problem.

1: Sort cases by Head stamp

I keep cases segregated by headstamp. When possible I buy only large lots of a single headstamp.

2: FL Size (Even new Cases)
I run an expander through the neck of new brass

3: Uniform Primer Pocket (Sinclair tool)
I would only do this with a benchrest round or some special project.

4: Trim all cases to Uniform Length
I will square them up after the first firing and sizing. There is not much use of trimming a new case. It is going to stretch/expand when it is fired.
5: Deburr and Chamfer case mouth
Yes I do this
6: Deburr Flash hole
Some lots get deburred if they are really bad.
7: Tumble clean all cases
Rarely.....only for really cruddy brass. I try to keep it clean so it does not need this.
8: Brush Inside Case necks
Never unless it is dirty range brass.

9: Polish Case necks with 0000 Steel wool
This just contaminates the surface of the brass with particles that will rust. I wipe of neck with an oily patch. I avoid ball powders because of their propensity to stain and etch the necks.

10: Weigh Cases and sort into .5 gr Lots[/quote]
I weigh to graph the distribution of weights when I am curious. The outliers are relegated to working up loads, fouling shots and plinking.
I rarely bother with this

I like to size with bushing sizers so I don't have to lube the case. However most of the time I full length resize. I remove the lube with 90% isopropyl alcohol. It dries quickly and I can continue the reloading process.

quote:

stillbeeman

stillbeeman / Hunt-ducks, Sorry gentlemen, I was only thinking of a safety concern that I'd read from a reliable source. Maybe it's old and obsolete, like me, but it won't happen again. I'll just keep quiet as to not upset you again.

quote:

stillbeeman / Hunt-ducks, Sorry gentlemen, I was only thinking of a safety concern that I'd read from a reliable source. Maybe it's old and obsolete, like me, but it won't happen again. I'll just keep quiet as to not upset you again.

At the risk of upsetting you again, the attached is something I stumbled on on the 6mmbr.com site:

One of our readers asked: “Is it OK to clean live, loaded ammo in a vibratory tumbler?†The basic answer is NO, do NOT tumble live ammo in a vibratory tumbler. There are serious potential safety hazards that can result from tumbling live ammo. Since it is really NOT necessary to tumble loaded ammo, why take the risk?

Tumbling Can Alter Powder Burn Properties
The main reason to avoid tumbling loaded ammo is that tumbling can break down the powder kernels inside the case and/or alter the burn-rate retarding coatings on the outside of the kernels. This can alter the powder’s burning properties, with dangerous consequences. If you vibrate loaded rounds for a long time, you can both grind or shear the kernels and alter the kernels’ external coatings. Read the warnings on a can of powder, it says do not shake (for that reason).

While we are aware that some hand-loaders, particularly pistol shooters, tumble loaded ammo to remove residual lube or just to make their ammo nice and shiny, this is NOT a sensible procedure. RCBS and most ammo-makers specifically warn against tumbling live ammo in a vibratory tumbler. Hodgdon’s official policy is: “Completed ammo should not be tumbled. The powder will degrade and increase in burn speed.†(From Mike Daly, Customer Satisfaction Manager, Hodgdon/IMR.)

Consider this commentary from the Fr. Frog website:

Q. Is tumbling loaded ammunition dangerous?

Answer: “…Extensive tumbling can cause the breakdown of the powder grains. This would have two major effects. First, smaller grains will ignite more quickly than larger grains, and second the deterrent coating on the outside of the grains may be rubbed off and will be absent from any fractured edges which will cause the powder to burn more quickly raising pressures.

Tests run some years ago by a commercial entity did indicate that potentially dangerous changes in powder charge burning characteristics do take place after PROLONGED periods in either a vibratory or a tumbling cleaner.

The key word here is prolonged. Many manufacturers of ammunition do a final cleaning of their product either by tumbling or a vibratory process before boxing it for shipment. In no case is this allowed to exceed more than just a couple of minutes. The intent is not so much to “polish†but to remove any traces of contaminants which might in time leave marks on the finished product. There seems to be a consensus among the ammunition manufacturing engineers that a minute or two of vibratory cleaning has no discernable effect on burning rates, especially for loads that are compressed, or nearly so. However, all have emphasized the need for EXTREME CAUTION not to overdo the process.

They also pointed out that there is a considerable difference in effect on the powder charge depending on whether the process is by ‘tumbling’ or ‘vibrating’. It would appear that tumbling has less effect on the powder than vibrating, though this is mostly a matter of degree. The admonition to use EXTREME CAUTION to insure that the process never exceeds a couple of minutes applies equally to either process.â€

quote:

Originally posted by 1lostinspace:
I was wondering how you guys prep your cases.
I am looking for a fast accurate way to do so.
I am reloading .223 and plan on starting on 30-06

When I do .223 cases I do it different than .30-06 cases.....reason?....I do .223 cases by the thousand!!!

for the .30-06:

It's strictly a hunting round and I rarely load more than 50 at once....that's a lot of .30-0+6 for this kid

1. spray lube and FL resize.....
2 measure lengths with a caliper and pick out too long cases....(over 2.494")

3. Trim to length in a Wilson trimmer

4. ID/OD deburr in a drill press using a RCBS tool

5. wash off lube in gasoline and throw them in a tumbler overnight

6. Pick the media out of the brass primer poskets and insure case is empty

7. load powder and seat bullets


If the cases are quite dirty you can tumble them first to save wear and tear on the dies.
/////////////////////////////////////////////

For the .223 I tumble the batch first and then full length resize,.....

I trim them once in a life time.....I trim them .03 under recommended trim length. ( I hate case prep)

I use a forester upright holder and a drill press to trim lengths....It goes fast but length variation is about .005 or so.....screw it...It's good enough!

Back to the drill presses to ID/OD chamfer

Once that is done I clean with gasoline and again tumble them for squeaky clean and shiny

Inspect for media in the primer pockets.

Now stick them in the Dillon 650 case bowl and start pulling handles.....

In the future the cases will not need trimming or chamfering.....if they do I toss them....

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
MIKEMICHALSKI, sure would like you to post something besides rumors and hearsay about stuff like that. They tumble loaded ammo at the factory as a final step before packaging. Also, how many miles does the powder travel via plane, train and truck before it gets to you without getting altered? How many thousands of miles has loaded ammo traveled via plane, train and hunting car on its way to the hunt and still did its job when it got there. Geez!

AAAMEN +1

RE tumbling loaded ammo

I've done it......and Dillon will say to do it....(in a tongue in cheek way) and it has been tested here on AR with no ill effects at all.

Ask Barstche how he did the test.

It would be nice that one loads his ammo such that it doesn't want to be tumbled at the end.....but if you want to do so have at it

I never got into any tumbling because of the lead dust. I just wipe cases well with a degreaser before loading.

But, I do all of the things mentioned above and get excellent accuray; the more accuracy the better... Being retired has its bennies, time on my hands.. LOL

Don

Edit to add: 1lostinspace, if you don't want to spend the time doing all of the things mentioned, and it do take time, buy Nosler brass and get brass that has everything done for you; weight sorted, flash holes deburred, case mouths chamfered... Good looking stuff. I just bought two boxes of Nosler brass in 223.

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
... if you don't want to spend the time doing all of the things mentioned, and it do take time, buy Nosler brass and get brass that has everything done for you; weight sorted, flash holes deburred, case mouths chamfered... Good looking stuff. I just bought two boxes of Nosler brass in 223.

Cheater!!!

But then, after its been shot a few times, it's all uneven and bad looking so you ought to send it to me and buy some more new Nosler.
I'm a old retared fart also so I have a lot of time on my hands waiting for my meager pension check to come in whilst hoping that Piloski doesn't get re-elected.