Shilen, found an even easier method. Hold the brass between your thumb and index finger about mid way, like you are pinching it, and hold the neck over a candle flame while spinning it in your fingers. When it becomes to hot to hold immedietly douse it in a wet cloth, that's it. You could probably do several a minute without having to take them in and out of a drill chuck. Lot of different ways to skin a cat though. Personaly, I dont like skinning them, just the fact that ther is one less cat's shit I have to pick out of my kids sand box is gratifying enough

Hey there, new to the forum. I thought I'd start asking around about this problem before I pull the rest of my hair out! I'm shooting a Weatherby mark5 in 30-378 and can't seem to get any consistent accuracy. I recently noticed that if I take a fired unsized brass and try to slip a bullet through the neck it gets hung up and I have to force it down through? Never had this problem before and thought someone out ther might have a little insight as to what's up. My guess is the necks are getting to thick from brass flowing forward but I've been told that turning the necks should not be an issue on a standard chamber rifle only tight chambered custom jobs? Any advice? tsranch@aol.com

I have recently been through something very similar. I was trying to work up a load in .223 for a new Encore, and could not get any resonable groups with the load, even though some previously loaded rounds printed faily well. I went through the whole nine yards of checking scope mounts etc. trying to find a reson that I could not hit the side of a barn with the new load. Even thought to turn the necks to take that variable out, when I noticed that the neck walls were much thicker on one side than the other. The problem was specific to that lot of brass, 80 rounds that I had purchased factory loaded, then saved the brass for some special project later on. After turning the first couple of cases, saw that to get them concenteric I was down to .009", and that all the material had been removed from one side of the case. Ten I really looked at the rest of the brass, and found that all of them were much thicker on one side than the other. Do not know if the concentricity of neck wall thickness might be your problem, but I felt pretty stupid by the time I got the problem figured out. I did not look before I leaped. I too have been told that standard chambers should not be an issue with relating to neck diameter of loaded rounds, but a few minutes measuring your brass might save you a lot of time.

So are you saying that the whole lot of brass was lopsided?
Norma makes the weatherby brass and I know they make excellent brass but I think I am going to ored a concentricity gauge from Sinclair to check the runout on my cases and loaded rounds.

That problem is suprising considering it is norma brass and a factory chamber, but forster does make a tool in which the INSIDE of the fired neck is reamed for this exact reason. There should NOT be resistance to the bullet sliding in and out, and yes that will affect accuracy. The forster tool is mounted on the case trimmer and the reamer goes into the inside of the FIRED case making it just large enough a bullet will slip through. Can't go wrong with forster, though you shouldn't be having this problem in the first place.

I agree shilen, that is the reason for my frustration. I think turning the outside as oppposed to reaming the inside would solve the problem as well. It seems like both procedures yeild relitively the same results. I have never tried either one so I am not sure, I am new to reloading and am always experimenting anyway.

Yes, but it depends on where your hang up is when sliding the bullet through. If it is near the mouth, I believe outside turning would do it for you. However, a lot of the time thickening occurs near the shoulder, where outside turning can't quite get down to, but inside reaming will. I have not reamed the inside of cases myself either, I just read a lot and ask a lot of questions. I wish I could help further.

Yes sir, to varring degrees, they were all thicker on one side than the other. Went through every other case in all my calibers, and that was not observed in any other brass. I had shot them through my H BAR, and saved them in a labled, clear plastic container for future use. Have a lot of military brass for .223, and did not see that same condition in any of the different lots of that. I chunked them and started over with some new R-P brass, and V Max bullets in 50 gr. weight, and am much better pleased. Now can play with seating depth and powder weight to tweak the load, but at least I stayed within a couple of inches this time. May have to get some more 45 gr. XLCs and try them with the different brass, though, the original attempt was not fair to the bullet, as I feel it was opperator error (me) on those 2'+ groups.

Longshot1,

Before you start removing brass I would try something else. Have you tried annealing a few cases and testing them?

No, I have not tried annealing. I have to run now but any more suggestions info would be greatly appreciated.

Longshot1,

Have to get going myself. It may be that the brass has become work-hardened and is "springing out" to release the bullet on ignition and then returning to its previous shape. I have found some brass benefits from annealing after only one or two firings and other brass (from different manufacturers) may not need annealing for the entire life of the brass.

I would eliminate this possibility before going down the neck turning road.

pdhunter

Annealing is very simple. Spin the brass using a drill in a 1" flame from a small propane torch for 6 seconds, then quench immediately in ice cold water. Hold the flame IN the case mouth with the flame pointing down the case. Quick, simple, and this method anneals to the right hardness. Cranberry red cases are too soft. A BR shooter taught me this and it works wonders. Also, turn the cases upside down in a wooden block (you can use a loading block, but I took a dry 2 ft 4X4 and drilled holes in it) and let it dry for a day or so.

a light load and slow burning powder sometimes dont make enough pressure to expand the neck.

Longshot, I gotta butt in on this one. You really need to turn your case necks a bit. One of the indicators used to gauge whether of not your brass is properly mated to your chamber cut is to drop a bullet into a fired case. If it "floats" a little on the way down you have a something approximating a "fitted neck". If it just drops through, it's loose. If it does as you describe, you got a problem. Arguing whether you should or should not have this problem with a factory chamber is pointless. You have insufficient neck release and your rifle is generating substantially greater chamber pressure than is safe. After you have fired a round your neck OD should be about .0015" or greater than a loaded round, much less and you are courting a trip to the hospital. Either turn your necks or send the gun back for evaluation by Weatherby. Absolutely no way you should have to force a bullet into a fired case. If it were mine I'd whisper a kind prayer to Weatherby, buy a neck turner set up, and get to it. Life as a precision reloader without one is an oxymoron anyway. If you choose this course be aware that removing .001" of wall thickness results in reducing neck OD by .002". It doesn't take a lot of turning to make things groovy. As an additional benefit you will have more consistant neck tension, and probably less velocity variations, all of which is a plus.

It is not all that uncommon to find this in factory chambers BTW, but usually it's only reloaders that discover it.

1

DDan, been at the laoding bench for awhile have you? I forgot to ad something that might throw a wrench into your theory. Be interested in your or anybody's response....The thing is that it only happens in about 35% of the fired brass? Necks only thick in that 35% maybe?

"Hang up is at entry into the neck" This can be caused by the case mouth getting bent in a little when the shell is ejected from the action. The mouth of the case strikes the side of the action on ejection.

Measure the diameter of a fired case at the neck. Measure the neck with a bullet seated. If the seated neck is smaller than the fired neck, everything is fine. Ideally the fired neck should be about .002" or more, larger. Factory chambers are usually closer to .006".

If the cases are too long for the chamber you would also have the mouth 'pinched' a bit. That's extremely dangerous as well. Make sure the case OAL is within tolerance and not too long.

Bob, I did this and everything was kosher. Everthing measured within .0005 or .0015 all the way around. Which leads me to beleive the necks are neither lopsided nor thick. Which takes us to 243's theory. But why?

What does that mean?

Very good point longshot. I am glad you mention the candle/wet cloth method because I was asking people a while ago if they have used that method and noone had. Glad to hear it works. I'll try it.

Longshot1,

Precision reloading is systematically eliminating variables from your reloads.

I can�t recall you saying that you were experiencing excessive pressure. If you are than this could also be a sign of an excessively tight chamber just as a neck that will not permit a bullet to slide through after firing. Excessive pressure also could be from too much powder, the wrong powder, incorrect loading data, and on and on. Are these two related, or are they seperate problems? If they are related than one distinct possibility is that the chamber neck is tight. If they are not related...?

The above is largely rhetorical to prove a point. A conscientious reloader must systematically identify/ isolate the problem. I may have incorrectly assumed you had eliminated all other obvious variables and were at the point of turning necks. �Work hardened� brass is (often) not an obvious problem and hence my question whether you had tried annealing. It is entirely possible that the necks need some work-but I would arrive at that conclusion using proven reloading techniques.

First of all, the catastrophic event that DigitalDan is talking about would take place when a loaded round was forced into the chamber and the neck portion of the chamber would have to reduce the OD of the neck much like trying to resize the neck while there is a bullet in place. This (in effect) increases the buning rate of the powder which of course increases pressure.

If this were my rifle:

1. Check the neck OD of several loaded rounds to see if it is under/over specs.
- check in several places as you would be looking for the largest measurement.
- if the neck OD is over specs, than you need to turn/ream necks.
- if the neck OD is within specs, proceed...

2. Load up a �dumby� round. (no powder, no primer)
- I would suggest full length resizing for this procedure.
- Once again, check to make sure the neck is within specs
- take a magic marker/sharpie and coat the neck of the round
- remove the bolt from your rifle and with your fingers push the dumby round up into the chamber.
- if you feel resistance- remove the round and look to see if you have removed any coloring on the neck.
- if the round can be pushed up to the shoulder and easily jarred loose or lightly tapped with a cleaning rod to remove and you do not see any marks on the neck- then you do not have an excessively tight chamber.
- if the neck indicates an excessively tight chamber, I would say a silent thank you prayer to the Lord, and send the rifle off to Weatherby for correction. A sporting rifle with a neck that far off is dangerous to anyone except the truly advanced reloader.

If nothing has shown up at this point (everything within specs) I would try annealing a few cases, fire them and see what happens.

- if the bullet drops through- problem solved.
- if the bullet does not drop though, do a careful neck turning/reaming. Problem solved.

It can be argued that we are back to where we started, turning/reaming necks. But you got there by using proven reloading techniques and not a �leap of faith�.

By the way- annealing returns brass to a more uniform nature which helps to eliminate variability in neck tension, which eliminates variability in your reloads.

Looks like we are back at the beginning again...

Hope this helps. pdhntr

I do not claim knowledge of this particular rifle or cartridge.

But...
1. Check your trim length ( could be a little long ? )

2. Check the OD of a FIRED case ( full power load ), compare it to a loaded round. The fired brass should be bigger by a fair margin )

3. Check for a " donut " at the bottom of the neck where it contacts the shoulder. ( this would be a ring of brass that pinches the base of the bullet )

Travis F.

Shilen, I got that from an article that John Barsness wrote on accurate handloading, it was a pretty good article and I found it through a Google search. But I know that some riflemen/hunters/reloaders have severe prejudices towards particular gun writers so.... If you want the link let me know and I will look for it.

Anyone know where this 'bartsche' character is coming from. Sounds a little sarcastic

pdhntr1,
I annealed all the brass the other day and will load some rounds tonight or tomorrow and then check the specs on the necks of the loaded rounds. I did this before just out of curiosity before I was having this problem and everything was groovy. So we will see.

I was at max load and expierencing a hard bolt lift but still not indicative of the undersized neck after firing, do you think? I am going to go with a completely different powder base, charge weight and bullet also. But will still load a few of the previously loaded rounds to investigate.

I have full length resized and will load up a dummy round and try the black marker procedure you mentioned. That is the first time I have heard of that but it sounds like an excellent idea, thank you!
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How about the beheading? Those animals should have ten times worse done to them. Funny how it's hardly a blip on the radar in national news now, huh? One day and now it's gone. Except Fox news of course, thank God for them. Sorry to mention it in this forum but you talked about saying a prayer to the Lord and it got me thinking. Any prayer I say is going to that poor guys family.

Anyway, I will let everyone know how it progresses, again, thanks for everone's help!

TBF,
Got 1 and 2 covered but will check for #3. thanks