Can anyone tell me how long it takes for this lube to dry completely? Does it EVER dry completely?

Lately I have been going through large quantities of 223 ammo. ( reloads, of course) I have been neck sizing the cases, and using an expander plug. I am a firm believer in lubing both the insides and outsides of the necks when resizing this way.

BTW - I do not want any lectures – no matter how well intentioned – about the merits of bushing dies rather than ‘fixed’, TiN or tungsten carbide bushings rather than steel, tungsten carbide expanders rather than steel, or no expander at all, etc. etc. I am well aware of the existence of these tools, and use them for some of my reloading of other cartridges for other rifles. But for the 223s, I have – for various considered reasons – settled on the old fashioned way.

However, I did start to get thoroughly fed up with having to wipe lube out of the insides of the necks after resizing, so I decided to give ONE SHOT a try. I gathered up cases in bundles of about 25, put a rubber band around each bundle to hold them together, bases down, and gave the necks a few squirts of ONE SHOT. Left them for a while to (apparently) dry off, as per instructions, then resized them, and wiped them over on the outsides. So far, so good.

When I began charging these cases, I noticed that in SOME of them, a bit of powder was sticking to the insides of the necks, near the mouths, but I didn’t worry about it too much. It says on the bottle that the stuff will NOT contaminate powder or primers. (I should add here that the insides of the case necks had all been brushed soon after the previous firing)

Soon after this, I started having some accuracy problems, but unfortunately I didn’t immediately associate these with my change of lube. There might have been other factors involved, too – I don’t know for certain. (I had previously been using anhydrous lanolin for neck lube) Then one day at the range recently I had several misfires, some cases came out covered with soot almost back to the heads, and there were PATTERNS forming on the targets, not groups! When I got home and broke down the misfired cartridges, I found ‘blobs’ of powder in the bases of them, with the granules all stuck together and discoloured, and when I punched out the primers, the pellets had also changed colour quite distinctly. There was a definite odour of ONE SHOT present (to me, it's horribly smelly stuff) which strongly suggests that residual quantities of it were causing problems.

I can’t remember exactly how much time elapsed between when I lubed these cases and when I primed and charged them, but I think it would have been at least 12 hours, and possibly 24 or more. I have since looked at some other cases I had sprayed and resized, and put mouth downwards in plastic ammo boxes. (un-primed) There were oily-looking marks of case mouth diameter in the bottoms of some ‘compartments’, presumably from lube running down.

Does all this sound typical, or have I got a bad bottle of ONE SHOT that does not dry as it should?

As of now, I’m reluctant to use the stuff again, and I am wondering if I should give all my presently resized cases a good wash in detergent and hot water. I don’t want any more troubles like I had last time at the range. And there is no benefit in using ONE SHOT at all in the future if I am going to have to wash and dry the cases after resizing.

Comments welcome.

I tryed one-shot once. It made such a mess out of the loading block, I tossed it out! It seemed like the force needed to resize was MORE than the bonanza lube I had been using.

Now, I use the excellent RCBS case slick spray lube. It also does NOT cause degradation of powder or primers. I spray cases in a bowl and shake them around. Those go into the case feeder in the dillon 650. Or I spray them in a loading block if I'm loading on a single stage loader.

I haven't had any of the problems you guys are talking about with One-Shot. I live in a humid environment and it has no problems with drying nor making a mess with my loading blocks. Do you think maybe you're using too much? I spray my cases with a quick 1-2 burst. No dented necks and no stuck cases. Also, are you shaking up the spray before use?

Neck size and deprime then clean in Vib.cleaner.

That's a no brainer.

Redrover,

I really like One Shot , but use an entirely different method of application.

I make sure the cases are all NOT standing up , and spray the outside of the case from many directions, figuring that overspray will take care of the neck.

It sounds like you are getting way too much lube into the case !

The carrier ( the part that smells ) will evaporate in 3-5 Min. if used this way.

One shot will not dry completely , instead it leaves a thin coating of slick stuff on the case after the carrier evaporates .

Some powder will stick to the residue in the case neck , never really figured it was a problem , the bullet will wipe it off when seated.


Travis F.

I agree , it sounds like to much lube.
I place my brass in a butter tub ( 1/2 to 2/3 full) , hit it with a 2 second spray .
shake the bottom brass up and hit it with another 2 second spray .

This IMO is more than enough lube for neck sizing .

I have run several thousand thru the 550 press the last few months , just neck sizing .
Getting ready for a praire dog hunt .

Johnch

Thanks for all the responses.

Maybe I have been applying ‘too much’ of the ONE SHOT lube, but I found that if I just gave the bunches of cases a quick squirt – especially if directed from the side rather than downwards at the case mouths – so little got deposited INSIDE the necks that I might as well not have even bothered with it. I could see quite plainly that there was hardly any lube there, and on drawing the expander back through the necks, it felt like there was none at all. It certainly didn’t take much of a squirt to put an adequate amount of lube on the OUTSIDES of the necks, but that wasn’t the main objective of the exercise.

I hadn’t shaken the ONE SHOT bottle all that much before use – I’ll try doing it a bit more vigorously, and see if it makes any difference.

My reasoning behind holding the cases in bunches of 25 with rubber bands (and standing them on a sheet of polythene) to spay them was to avoid wasteful ‘over-spraying’ of big spaces in between cases, as would have happened if they were standing up in a loading block. I figured that would soon make a big mess of the loading block, too …

I afraid don’t see tumbling the cases after sizing as a ‘no brainer’. (assuming that implies a ‘simple and obvious solution’) I’m trying to find a way to simplify operations with large numbers of cases, not add steps to the process. My own experiences with tumbling cases have not been entirely positive. Sure it cleans them up a bit, but it takes me ages to ensure there is no media left in each case afterwards, pick and poke out bits that have got stuck in flash holes, and then clean residual dust and stuff off the cases. Not something I want to go through with each loading, thank you very much.

The problem I have been having with residual ONE SHOT inside the necks is that I am using Benchmark powder in the223s, which is very fine grained. So much of it sticks and builds up in the cases mouths when the charge is poured in, that when the funnel is lifted away, or the case is taken away from the powder measure, some of it spills out. Not a lot, usually, but I’d rather it ALL went into the case where it is supposed to be.

I might end up getting a Lee collet die for neck sizing the 223 cases. I’ve had reasonable success with one with my 222, though overall, I feel my Redding Type ‘S’ neck sizer does a better job, and produces slightly more accurate ammo.

I’d like to use a Type ‘S’ for the 223, but I’ve got hundreds of cases, of four different brands, and the necks are definitely not all the same thickness. Some are not particularly consistent either, it seems, but they still shoot accurately enough for ‘walkabout varminting’ purposes. I tried using a borrowed bushing die once, but it didn’t work out too well without using the expander plug - there were obvious, BIG, variations in bullet grip, and accuracy was definitely not the best. Yes, it MIGHT improve things if I used different bushings for different lots of brass, but I’m trying to keep things simple here. I don’t really want to neck turn all my cases to ‘uniform’ the thickness of them – I’m using original factory barrels, with typically large chamber necks.

I hoped that using ONE SHOT – or similar - would be a simple answer, but it’s not looking too promising now. Guess I had better wash all those resized cases that are under suspicion of still having wet lube inside them …

Thanks again to those who have responded.

Any lube whether wet or dry in the necks is not good for accuracy. You will change the case neck tension on the bullet. If you feel the expander is hard to pull through the necks, you are sizing more then needed. The neck area of the die can be lapped for minimum sizing or the Redding S dies used that don't need an expander. I used to send all of my dies back to the factory to have the neck area lapped to fit my fired cases, they used to do it free but now charge for it. This was very important with cases like the Weatherby because a tight expander would bend the shoulder and cause bad bullet runout. After lapping, I would never have more then .002" runout and mostly a lot less, before lapping some were as much as .020" out.
It doesn't seem to be a question of too much lube, but a question of ANY lube inside the neck. You can use a lot of lube then after sizing just wash the cases in hot soapy water with a bottle brush. Make sure they dry good before loading.
Everyone looks for a faster, easier way to load and in most cases, it doesn't pay.

If you have all kinds of brass, it would be a good idea to outside neck turn them all so they all size the same. Just take enough brass off to true them up even if the cutter leaves a tiny area untouched on one side.

If you are just neck sizing, would it work if you used a dry power neck lube (graphite, mica, wax)?

Just dip the cases mouth down in the dry lube both inside and outside of the case get coated with the lube powder, just dip the neck not the shoulder.

Or maybe your could spray a little lube in a small container. Let the "carrier liquid" evaporate, then use a Q-tip dip in whats left and wipe the inside and outside of the case necks.

If I used a spray lub I think I would build a jig to hold the cases mouth down for spraying.
Some small diameter dowells glued into a 2x4.
so close together as to practiclly elimiate the gap between the cases. Spraying both sides of 20 cases all mounted in a row would be easy.

I tryed one shot and didn't like it either. the dillion stuff has worked best for me

bfrshooter: I can see where you are coming from, but …

The expanders in my 223 dies (neck and full length sizers) aren’t really ‘dragging through hard’ - I’ve seen and owned others far, FAR worse. I always give my expanders a good polishing – some are pretty rough, ex-factory. The neck parts of my 223 dies aren’t bad for size. After some experimenting with a borrowed ‘S’ die and making various measurements, I worked out that if I changed to bushing type dies, I could only use a bushing a thou or two smaller than my ‘fixed’ dies.

It’s been my general experience that when using any dies with expanders, lubing the insides of case necks produces better results than if they are done dry – less runout, less stretching, better case life. My only issue is what’s best to do about that lube afterwards. The method I have used for decades (with strips of cloth and isopropynol) works well enough, it’s just tedious when I have many hundreds of cases to do, and also, my fingers and thumbs start to ache after a while!

Yes, I COULD get a Type ‘S’ 223 die, and do away with neck expanding, if I neck turned all my cases. I’ve got neck turning gear, but doing the best part of a thousand cases is NOT an appealing prospect. And as I have said, I already have lots of neck clearance in my chambers, so thinning the case necks down further would be a step in the wrong direction. Though I accept that it might not make much practical difference.

greenjoy: Yes, dry lube is something I am definitely considering now. I tried graphite many years ago, but the gadget I made for applying the stuff didn’t work all that well, and I eventually gave up on it. Hearing my wife growling ‘What’s this black stuff I keep finding all over everything?’ had something to do with it, too. (I am still married to the same wife today, so I’ll have to think up a more effective and less messy applicator system … and wash my paws more carefully) I have never tried powdered mica myself, but all the people I know who have, said it was useless.

I don’t think a bit of residual graphite inside the case necks will harm anything, as long as it is reasonably consistent. I’m using moly coated bullets in my 22 centrefires, so the bullet/case neck interface is lubricated anyway.

Your doing something wrong if you have that many problems in cleaning cases, use corn cob vs walnut.

I deprime and size my cases then in the vib. cleaner they go then dump into a media case seperator turn a couple of time and ready to prime sure I might have 2-3% of the cases with media in the flash hole peice of cake to knock out with a piece of wire, like I said quit using walnut that is a pain to clean out.

I also quit using one shot it's Dillon case lube for me also.

But if you like squib loads hang fires and no boom keep doing it your way.

How about throwing the cases in a container of acetone, shaking them good and straining it off. They will dry fast. Don't breath too much or you will be like me, sort of brain dead or so the wife thinks.

First, by all means buy and use the Lee Collet sizing die. Then you don't need lube, in or outside of the neck. I've got one for all my centerfire rifle calibers except 35 Whelen and 416 Rem mag. Uncommonly good and inexpensive.

But if you feel the need to keep using whatever brand of sizing die you're using, exchange the original, short, stubby expander ball with a tapered one. I know Redding and RCBS offer them. Also, get a tin of Imperial Inside Neck Lube and annoint a clean nylon brush with it. A swipe or two before running through the resizer and no more metal-on-metal noise.

Quote (Hunt-ducks)
Your doing something wrong if you have that many problems in cleaning cases, use corn cob vs walnut.

I HAVE used corn cob for my past case tumbling efforts (I never stated anywhere that I had been using walnut shell) and it DID leave the cases quite dusty. I don’t recall even roughly what percentage of the cases finished up either packed with corn cob that didn’t want to shake out too easily, or with bits of corn cob well stuck in the flash holes. It would have been a lot more than 2 – 3%, but the figure doesn’t really matter – I still had to visually check 100% of the cases, one by one, to make sure that they were clear, and poke and shake the bits out of those that weren’t.

Besides this, I could never feel entirely happy about re-sizing cases (and hopefully, getting them reasonably straight and true) then rattling them around in a tumbler for ages, then banging them about some more in a colander of some sort to separate them from the corn cob. I never attempted to resolve this doubt, though – I can think of better things to shoot off a lot of ammo and wear out barrels for. (I could bankrupt myself trying to answer all the questions I can think of about rifles and ammunition!)

Quote (Hunt-ducks)
But if you like squib loads hang fires and no boom keep doing it your way.

What’s this supposed to mean? That YOUR way is the only way that works??

Of course I am not prepared to accept either partial or total misfires. I’ve never had any as the result of the loading methods I have always used in the past, and according to Hornady’s claims, I shouldn’t have had any as the result of using ONE SHOT. But I did. Perhaps as a result of using the stuff in a manner other than what Hornady really intended? I don’t know.

All I was really trying to ascertain when I started this thread was what other peoples’ experiences had been if they squirted enough ONE SHOT into the insides of the case necks to ease the passage of an expander plug. But as often happens, it has become a much broader discussion.

Quote (bfrshooter)
How about throwing the cases in a container of acetone, shaking them good and straining it off. They will dry fast. Don't breath too much or you will be like me, sort of brain dead or so the wife thinks.

I have been thinking along those lines, too. I was considering trying white spirit (or Coleman Fuel, or white gasoline, or whatever you call that stuff in the US) rather than acetone, though. Usually works quite well as a de-greaser, has a slightly higher flash-point and is generally a bit less hazardous to handle. It’s also a lot cheaper than accetone and doesn’t have quite such a revolting smell! (I hadn’t considered the possibility of brain damage – my wife sounds a bit like yours, she reckons my grey cells are already beyond salvage!)

Quote (onefunzr2)
First, by all means buy and use the Lee Collet sizing die.

I probably will, soon, even if it is only as a stand-by. Last time I went on a shooting trip to the southern end of the country I got onto such a rich vein of rabbits that I ran out of 22 centrefire ammo. Luckily I had taken reloading gear and components with me ‘just in case’, so I was able to put some more together, but collet dies would sure have saved some time.

Quote (onefunzr2)
But if you feel the need to keep using whatever brand of sizing die you're using, exchange the original, short, stubby expander ball with a tapered one. I know Redding and RCBS offer them.

I’m using standard Redding 223 dies at present. The sizers could be fitted with Redding’s carbide button kit – is this what you are referring to? (couldn’t find any other buttons of this sort of shape in their catalogue) I don’t doubt that a button like this would lessen ‘drag’, but I’m still inclined to go along with Redding’s recommendation to use lube even when using TiN coated sizing bushings and carbide expander buttons.

I’ve got some Imperial die wax, but I take it that what you are referring to is something a bit different? Do you have to clean the residue of it out of the case necks after sizing? (and before re-charging)

No the tapered is different than the carbide. Click this link and you can compare:

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/sizebuttons.html

Unfortunately Redding does not make a tapered 22 caliber button.

Redding now markets both the sizing die wax AND the neck lube. They are listed under the accessories tab on the online catalog dropdown list. I'm sure it is some sort of proprietary graphite mix. Like the sizing die wax, a very little goes a long way, so you do not have to remove it before bullet seating. I use it with moly-coated bullets in .223Rem Ackley, 22-250 Rem, 25-06Rem and 338-06Ackley.

Just to be clear, the Lee Collet die comes as a set along with a seater die. Or as a three piece set with a full-length sizer and a seater. Check them out on Lee's website. They guarantee more accurate ammo or your money back. I have never heard of anyone taking them up on it. They are that good. Try our AR search function, there are dozens of threads on how good the collet die is.

quote:

I HAVE used corn cob for my past case tumbling efforts (I never stated anywhere that I had been using walnut shell) and it DID leave the cases quite dusty. I don’t recall even roughly what percentage of the cases finished up either packed with corn cob that didn’t want to shake out too easily, or with bits of corn cob well stuck in the flash holes. It would have been a lot more than 2 – 3%, but the figure doesn’t really matter – I still had to visually check 100% of the cases, one by one, to make sure that they were clear, and poke and shake the bits out of those that weren’t.

Another method is to tumble BEFORE sizing. That way the media stuck in the flash hole is removed by the primer punch.

I never noticed "dust" on my cases,BUT I use either flitz or midway case polish as an additive with corn cob. Those that tumble after sizing, are trying to remove the lube from the case. I do that as the next step after sizing. I use denatured alcohol on a paper towel to wipe each case. If they're going to get trimmed, then each case is wiped while it's spinning in the lee case spinner AFTER it's trimmed, chamfered, and has the flash hole de-burred.

If they went through the dillon, then the lube is removed by tossing them into the tumbler in bare corn cob for ten-fifteen minutes. It removes the RCBS case slick and does a final polish.

I'm in the process of getting a lee collet die for every caliber I load for. No worries about lube inside or outside! I have had to reduce the diameter of the pilot, otherwise the bullet pull is much less that whatever standard FL die was normally used. I spin the pilot in a hole shooter,(drill motor), hold a diamond hone against the pilot with some oil on it. .001 seems to do the trick! BUT, the lee collet should only be used for bolt guns. Or so I've heard! I have a .223 collet die coming from midway, should be here tomorrow. I'm going to see if I can get away with using it for my AR-15 bushy!

For neck lubing I've always used graphite with no ill effects.

Banding those cases is self defeating. The lube has to work its way to the innermost cases. Just spread the cases out on a cookie sheet, give them a guick squirt, a shake, and another quick squirt. Creep will take care of the rest. Store the sheet upside down so it does not collect dust and wash it once in a while.

I generally inside neck lube, anyway. I filled a round Altoids tin with #9 shot and added a heaping tablespoon of powdered mica. Lubing is just pushing the necks of a handful of cases down into the shot and lifting. Shot drops free and knocks off the surplus mica as it does so. If it takes two minutes to do 100 .223 cases, I am having a slow day.

Tumble the cases for a short period after you use the one shot and it will take care of your problem.

Quote (onefunzr2)
No the tapered is different than the carbide.

I think we must be getting our wires crossed somewhere?? It was the carbide job that I asked previously if you were suggesting as a replacement - the tapered variety is clearly not available in the right size.

Quote (onefunzr2
Redding now markets both the sizing die wax AND the neck lube. They are listed under the accessories tab on the online catalog dropdown list.

OK, found it. That stuff will certainly be worth a close look – I hope the Redding agents here bring it in.

Quote (onefunzr2)
Just to be clear, the Lee Collet die comes as a set along with a seater die.

Believe it or not, the Lee agents here do sell collet dies on their own for a few of the more popular cartridges. (and not surprisingly, the 223 is included in that category)

I have a 222 collet die which I have used off and on for some years. At one stage I was using it exclusively, then I started getting a lot of split case necks with my favoured Norma cases. I lightly annealed all those cases, switched to using a Redding ‘S’ neck sizer, and the splitting stopped. Of course it is quite likely that this was due to the annealing, not the change of die, but I got into the habit of using the ‘S’ die most of the time. Accuracy seemed slightly better, though I probably didn’t shoot enough groups off a bench (in comparable conditions) to fully prove this.

Quote (grizz)
Another method is to tumble BEFORE sizing. That way the media stuck in the flash hole is removed by the primer punch.

Sure, and I do this occasionally, too, if my cases are getting dirty looking enough to annoy me, but that’s a separate issue from getting rid of residual sizing lube inside cases.

Yes, I know what you mean about bullet grip – I had to reduce the spindle diameter of my 222 collet die a thou or so to make it work properly. It seems that a lot of users need to do this – no big deal, though.

Quote (Leftoverdj)
Banding those cases is self defeating. The lube has to work its way to the innermost cases.

I can’t agree with you about this, at least as far as lubing bottle-necked cases in preparation for neck sizing is concerned. I found that by the time I had sprayed on enough ‘ONE SHOT’ to have anything like an adequate amount of it on the insides of the case necks, there was MORE than enough on the outsides. And evidently a whole lot of it right inside the bodies of some of the cases, which seems to have been the cause of a lot of my troubles.

I think I’m about ‘through’ with spray-on case lubes ...

I have been using Hornaday one shot for years with no problems at all. I use a large zip-lock plastic bag, drop in a group of unsized, un-primed cases, spray in some one shot and hand roll the bag around to get a good coating on all the cases. I have never had a problem with a stuck case in the dies, or contaminated powder or primer. I do not wipe off the cases after I have used the one shot, just let them dry! The thing I like is that I can lube the cases and I can size several days later with no problem.

R D McM:
I tried your zip-lock bag trick for lubing cases with ONE SHOT earlier today, just for interest, and I can’t say that it achieved anything like the results I want. It certainly got plenty of lube all over the outsides of the cases, from head to mouth, but most of this was wasted, seeing that I only neck size my cases. (until they eventually start to get a bit tight, after repeated firings, then they go through the F/L die instead) Your method didn’t get ANY lube INSIDE the necks that I could detect. If the odd speck did make it in there, it made no perceptible difference to the neck sizing operation – it seemed just the same as if the insides of the necks were bone dry.

I’m not too keen to leave residual lube all over my cases, for various reasons. If you are happy to use ammo like this, go ahead, but I am certainly not going to follow your example.

One possible solution is to wipe the cases down AFTER loading to remove the One Shot , a large towel and some rubbing alcohol works well. A double handful of loaded ammo at a time , just a quick once across rub with the folded over towel , takes like 10 seconds per 50 rounds. ( this will RUIN the towel with a permanent stain, be sure not to use the wifes favorite... )

I have also used 223 ammo as is after loading with the One Shot still on the case. I can't say this is the correct way to do things but I noticed no abnormal stuff.
I know someone is going to mention that the case cannot grip the chamber the same way as naked brass, and the case head thrust will be increased. I won't deny that this sounds likely , but lack any evidence that this is really a problem with One Shot in 223.

I totally agree that poking media out of the primer holes is a major inconvenience when loading quantities of ammo. If you decide to tumble after trimming to get the brass and lube removed from the cases , and are loading on a progressive , another run through the sizing die will not change anything dimension wise , and the decapper will poke the media out of the flash hole nicely.

Just rambling .02 ...


Travis F.