The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading most accurate and hardhit 150 gr FMJ 30 caliber buGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Hi which brand makes the best 30 caliber 150 gr FMJ bullets? regards danny | ||
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First...get familiar with basic ballistics. ALL 150 grain bullets traveling at the same speed have the same energy potential. Secondly, accuracy is totaly determined by your firearm. | |||
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"Secondly, accuracy is totaly determined by your firearm." Huh? To paraphrase the Prez, "depends on what your definition of accuracy is".... Components can greatly effect accuracy, as I doubt a firearms/reloading wizard exists that can make some cheapo FMJ shoot as well as a Sierra MK. And I have seen some dismal FMJ performance. Lucky the shooter who finds an "accurate" FMJ. | |||
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yes professor riccardelli  first all bullets of same speed and weight may have same energy at muzzle but not sure having same at 100 yards it depend to shape and BC.  second if you have no experience and knowledge on matter please don't teach others about it  accuracy maybe is individual for rifles ,but a good and uniform component is also very important, danny | |||
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I have a 30-06 with a Douglas match barrel, the bulk Win 147gr fmj's with do 1" for 5 shots with 48grs of IMR-4895, the same rifle does 1/2 moa with Sierra 168gr hpbt's | |||
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Danny, don't cross reloading swords with Steve unless you have a loaded and cocked pistol behind your back. On most days that may not be enough, IMHO. | |||
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Quote: That's correct! What shoots sub 0.5 MOA groups in my rifle will not necessarily shoot 0.5 MOA groups in another rifle! The whole object behind handloading ammunition is to find the best components and performance for a particular firearm. | |||
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Quote: First of all, the three major 30-caliber, 150 grain, FMJ bullets all have basically the same BC. Secondly, BC is totally useless at ranges of 100 yards and less. And finally, I have over 44 years of reloading experience, and 56 years of shooting experience. | |||
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Quote: Click that link in Mr. Riccardelli's signature and take an hour or so to read his website. He has more knowledge and experience now than most will ever have. Shoot Safe, Ian | |||
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Steve says: "Secondly, accuracy is totaly determined by your firearm." Huh? And then.."That's correct! What shoots sub 0.5 MOA groups in my rifle will not necessarily shoot 0.5 MOA groups in another rifle! The whole object behind handloading ammunition is to find the best components and performance for a particular firearm." Sooo....accuracy does depend on both the firearm and the components. Make up your mind. Hopefully it will be that both greatly affect final accuracy. Remember his initial question? | |||
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Quote: I sure do... He asked "What is the best ... blah...blah...blah..." THE BEST DEPENDS ON HIS FIREARM! | |||
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Quote: Two words can totally change the meaning of that statementand may help some people to understand what I believe steve actually meant to convey.I would rewrite that statement as follows.The whole object behind handloading ammunition is to find the best "combination of" components and performance for a particular firearm.In other words even using carefully prepared cases,match grade bullets and primers and carefully weighed powder charges will not guarantee the best accuracy from a given rifle if the rifle does not like the combination of components.I have seen rifles that shot better with a specific cheap factory load than with carefully prepared handloads using much better grade components.The only way to find out which load your particular rifle prefers is by trial and error. | |||
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Steve, I saw a bumper sticker on the back of a Chevy Blazer in Las Vegas once, It was a Harley Davidson sticker. I have used its logic a million times since then as nothing explains things as well. I think it applies here. " If I HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT , then you evidently don't have the capacity to understand it." Some days you just can't waste your time to explain the obvious, or get frustrated when someone is not grasping it. Cheers and Good shooting seafire PS, No offense meant toward Danny P. | |||
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Ave Stevo I didn'te wante to be rude to you OLD MAN and I respect your HIGH AGE  but the question was not only about accuraccy it was about preformance on game too(HARD HITTING). all fmj bullets have not identical construction and I read an article in a german hunting magasin comparing Nato steel jaket army FMJs and US made fmjs and the penetration results were very different. I don't remember if I wrote blah blah blah? if you are old and tired to answere please don't bother yourself. i am not a young guy neither about your age ,but maybe not so tired  cheers OLD MAN danny | |||
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Please point out any wrong statements on my part. I fully understand, as I believe Danny P does, the fact the firearm has to "like" the load to provide best accuracy. But he was hoping to obtain info as to which components would bring him to that point the quickest. I have reloaded plenty enough to appreciate component quality, to expedite my quest for "accuracy" in a given firearm. Vague answers, when there is a specific question (possible best FMJ for accuracy and performance on game), don't do much good. I shoot NRA Highpower; if someone were to ask me for what loads to possibly use for competition, I could certainly suggest components more likely to perform "accurately" in their rifles. Isn't that simple? Good shooting to all! | |||
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Hi Mulerider It seems that fmj bullets are only used for target shooting over there, while fmj bullets are used for hunting edible games and biird like cappercaille. in Sweden and only in sweden there are many companies making fmj bullets Norma here and lapua and sako in finland and all these bullets have not the same shape and form! my hope was to hear more from hunters of the rest of the world and don't understand why this question would be an offens? there are some fmjs pointed ,some less pointed like norma's and some with cuting edge like lapua's and sakos . i beleive it is a missunderstanding behind the rude answers! i have shot too a lot of rounds in my life and do it nearly every weekend and loaded many rounds too ,but it dosen't give me the right to concider others as ignorants. it is true that one ought to find the right combination of loading which works well in his gun ,but it could only be answer to the accuracy part not the performance on game animals.Now i wish hear from hunters and their experiences with us made solids, if it is not an offens?are there any company making flat point fmjs in USA?regards danny | |||
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The only flat point solids readily available here are for the larger calibers. The only extensive line of small and medium bore solids are the Barnes spitzers which start at .224 and go up. They are a monolithic solid, not FMJ. I used a lot of the .224 solids in my Swift on coyotes and hogs and at those velocities they performed pretty much like softs. The only 30 cal FMJs you find here are usually 150 gr mil spec flat base or 147 gr mil spec boat tails. Not that I pretend to know all the sources, though. | |||
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Hi Tiggertate thanks for the reply. i am planing to load som solid rounds in 3030 for goose hunting!! next year. that is why i wanted to know a little bit more . i usually use two accurate 222 rem guns( one a tikka which belongs to my son and my Brno fox) with norma fmj 50 gr f�gel (which means bird in swedish) ,but i am not realy sure about effects on gees and body hit the range can be between 150-200 yards and if i get headshot then the goose is going to the table otherwise the result is uncertain, i wanted to move to 30 caliber for somewhat better killing power. regards danny | |||
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Danny,, Goose hunters are not allowed to use FMJ rounds in Goose hunting in the USA. Actually many states ( each regulates their own hunting laws within their boundaries) forbid FMJs to be used in any sort of BiGgame hunting, that is edible. They are not that concerned about varmint eradication, so shooting Coyote, fox etc, with FMJ is not a big deal. Doing so for Deer, Moose, Bear, Elk, Sheep etc, is pretty much illegal for anywhere I have ever checked into. Anyone can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, with no offense being taken. So maybe your question is foreign to those of us on this side of the Atlantic. FMJs are not judged for hitting power. If they don't open up, who knows what will happen when they hit game, with each individual bullet. FMJs in 30 caliber are military specs. According to the Geneva convention, FMJs are to injure enemy troops without killing them. So in military specs, in 30 cal, they are military contract for the most part. Civilian application and hence forth developement is not really a profitable pursuit for US companies. Cheers and good shooting seafire | |||
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Quote: Steve, You are a rude horse's behind. And no I don't care how many reloading manuals you have read and copied data from and pawned off as your own. The man asked a legitimate question and because you can't see that he has a need for the bullet he inquired about, maybe weren't even smart enough to see where he was from, you mouthed off and showed your ignorance. You owe Danny (and more) an apology. Danny, Have you thought of a cast bullet? I don't know if you have commercial caster, if not you could certainly get a mould and expiriment. There are plenty of 30-30 moulds available. Sean | |||
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Hi loneagle I have three moulds made by lee one in 170 flat point one in 160 grain rn and the third in 120 gr rn and all gas check, i,ve done some loadings but haven,t yet had the opportunity to use them on the game. capercaille in winter time needs a very flatshooting round(like 222 rem or even better)distance could be long and requires high velocity rounds,but for the sitting gees at the field i concider the 30 caliber would be a thicket. i,ve tried norma 150 grain in front of 33 gr norma 202 it gives around 700 M/S(2300 fps) in my savage 24 and much lower in the savage 340 (erratic velocity 2100-2200 fps and bad accuracy) . i've got around 2400 fps with sierra 110 fmj but accuracy is not satisfactory . i get very fine accuracy with 125 gr sierra sp and 135 gr pistol(very good pentration in newspapper and good mushrooming i may use it for next year roe deer hunt .but don't want to use these loads on edible smal game. regards danny | |||
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Hi seafire actually in Sweden the big games are not allowed with fmj only birds and smal games. for moose hunting it is required having a gun launching bullets of at least 140 grain soft point bullet (or expanding like barnes) at muzzel energy of 2700 joule. the fmjs are only for smal game hunting not even roe deer but i am a smal game hunter my freezer is not enough big regards danny | |||
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Danny, the Barnes solids in 30 cal are 110, 125, 165 and 220 grains. Some are pointed and some are round, none are expanding. I think in .308 the first three are spitzer and the 220 is a round nose. These are turned from a brass or bronze alloy and so hard they need a good barrel to do their best accuracy but the .510 caliber competition version has won many 1000 yd matches so they are well made. Any of them would drop a goose and if the velocity isn;t too high there might be enough left to eat. The image is courtesy of their web site Barnes:  | |||
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Hi tiggertate I own a box of barnes 220 gr solid and a box of woodleigh 220 gr steel jacket too,but these bullets are really too long to be loaded in a 3030 !! they take a lot of case volume. i am concidering to buy somelighter barnes pointed and shorten them by cuting a good meplat on them for hunting purpose. back in 1950-1960 when i was young , one could find and buy old 3030 rounds loaded with fmj flatpoint but they became obsolete. those fmj fp were real good game-getters if the animal was intended for the table and they didn't lead contaminate the meat as cast bullets can do.sadly nobody makes fmj flat pointed for use in leverguns.what a pitty. i am sure many 3030 hunters would apreciate them. regards danny | |||
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If you want a FMJ for 30-30 try the barnes FNHP built just forthe 30-30. No lead in it at all. I've loaded them for my buddies 30-30 for years. Very accurate. I'd say he's taken about 6 deer with very very clean kills. When we were testing them we dug some out of the dirt at the range--they weighed almost 100% and had a beautiful mushroom. He's never recovered one from a deer and I doubt he ever will unless he takes them on from front to rear. I have some of the same bullets for my 45-70 but haven't yet taken any animals--I can only imagine the performance when I do. | |||
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Quote: Yeah, right. No differences at all among bullets -- ask any benchrester. Concerning 30 cal, I guess that is why all the benchrest and target competitions are won by Remington and Winchester bullets.  Although every rifle certainly has its preferences, the Lapua FMJ are probably the most concentric bullets easily available to Danny in Sweden. | |||
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Quote: Hey Danny, Over the years I've "eaten" a whole lot of Deer, Squirrels, Rabbits, Dove, Quail, Ducks, Geese, and Turkey using good old Lead Shot and Lead bullets. Then another bunch of stuff including Hogs, Bears, etc. killed with jacketed bullets containing Lead that made meat contact. All this time I thought the scales were just "a few biscuits and gravy" away from 300# because of the "sliced tomatoes" I used to eat with all the above. As I look down and notice my belt is a bit hidden, I thought it was just "FAT", but now you have me wondering if it is really "Lead"!!! ... A buddy stopped by last week and loaded some 30-30 cases with 147gr FMJ FN-FAL bullets(actually 143gr as checked) and Blue Dot Reduced Loads< !--color--> that Seafire mentioned. If the weather cooperates, we may get to turn them loose this coming week. These bullets appear to be made similar to the Rem and Win FMJs I've shot in the past, except these FN-FALs are "finished" better. All three are made with the jacket opening at the Base. The FN-FALs appear to have had a more precise manufacturing process because each Base is clean and properly finished. The sides of the bullet and Tip forming look very sleek and clean - similar to the care bestowed on Sierra Bullets. Don't know how they shoot "yet", but he has a 1000 of them to find out. ... I'm wondering why this "Lead" I've got around my waist doesn't set off the airport metal detectors??? | |||
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eldeguello, Leave it alone. Stop trying to be the morals police for other countries. This man obviously knows what he is doing and what he needs a bullet to do. He also knows the game at which he is shooting. We are talking birds here unless you didn't bother to read that much of the thread. I'm sure this man doesn't need people like you and Steve Ricci. trying to give him hunting lessons. So how about if you can't give an intelligent answer stay out of the conversation. Now Danny, The cast I have are a 165 gr Flat Point. But I was wondering. On Sixgunner.com they were talking about a tool that you placed a bullet in and using a pair of side cutters, snipped the ends of the bullets off to give a good flat point with uniform (hopefully) weight. These people were doing it with .22 LR bullets to improve the shock on small game. I wonder if something like that could be made up for the larger bullets you want to use. It would of course involve some expirimenting to get enough of a flat with out ruing flight characteristics. Just another idea for you. Sean | |||
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Buy a box of 165 grain spitzers and load some backwards. Who knows? If that doesn't work you can certainly grind a flat on the nose. I really don't think you will see any lack of killing power with the 30 caliber pointy bullets as-is, though. | |||
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Hej JPB i tried to find some 0,30 cal lapua 123 gr FMJ here in skaraborg in vain , it seems these bullets are made with hunting in mind (solid with cutting edge).I had good experience with sako BX loads in 222 remington and will recommand it warm for roe deer hunting. Hi thanks everybody for replies. eldeguello . here in Sweden too big game hunting is only allowed with expanding bullets only smal edible games are hunted with FMJ bullets. i've tried som starfire PMC BX 150 gr loads in my 3030s and man it penetrates like a 308 or 3006, and if it was allowed i had used it in moose hunting without hesitation of cours with some range limitation under 100 meter, and i usually shot a lot with PMc cowboy action 170 cast rounds very nice loads and are good candidate for smal game at short range less than 100 yards range the loads clock 410 m/s in my savage 24 and 370-80 M/S in my savage 340. all the best danny | |||
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Steve's point is each rifle has its own likes. I'd really like to find an accurate load for any partitioned bullet (Swift or Nosler) for either my 338WM or my 30-06. I've spent a lot of time and money in the search, but to no avail. They will each shoot adequately with Winchester Fail Safe bullets, though. I personally know a few shooters who experience the reverse to be true. | |||
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Quote: Danny, I understand! My experience has been that a FMJ bullet, IF DRIVEN AT THE VELOCITIES OBTAINABLE WITH FULL-CHARGE LOADS, will cause as much meat damage in small game as expanding bullets. For example, if one were to shoot turkeys (or auerhahn) with a HP rifle, it is advisable to shoot them in the head or neck regardless of whether you are using an expanding bullet or a solid. Otherwise, you will need to reduce the velocity of your load to the point that the explosive effect of high velocity is lost, say around 1500 FPS or lower. And, at such speeds, a hard-cast lead bullet is as good as a jacketed one. I think your cast 170-grainer would be excellent, if it were cast it from a hard alloy, or heat-treated to a Brinnel of 20 or more. | ||
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Quote: Hey LoneEagle, Your thoughts are well intentioned, but there is a potential problem - core/jacket separation within the barrel. FMJs are "typically" made with a lightly lubed Lead core inside a Jacket that has Forming Oil on it. A lot of Pressure is exerted on the Bullet as it is being Formed, but that does not get rid of all the lube. If you snip the end off of a FMJ, the "potential" is there for the Lead to be blown out of the Jacket and leave the Jacket in the barrel. Doesn't happen all the time because of mechanical tension. But it can indeed happen due to the specific shape of the FMJ as Formed, the Load being used, as well as Bore condition. You might want to consider checking your barrel "closely" after each shot if you try this. | |||
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Quote: Good advice! It can and does happen! Not so much if the bullet is a boattail, but do check your bore after each shot with "snipped FMJ's"!! | ||
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Hi eldeguello as a kid i had oppurtunity to hunt with a Garand M1 and 150 gr flatbase surps and as you mentioned some time it can make great damages to the game,but i beleive it is due to the speed .but in swedn the shootings is done at more than 100 yds and the damage to the meat wouldn't be a problem. Hi Hot core Nobdy is going to cut the tip of FMJS ! it was for Barnes pointed solids which are monolithics. danny | |||
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Well, if you say that I am a rude horse's ass, I must be, because I know of no one who is more of an expert on horses's asses! (Are you also as familiar with other barnyard animals?) As for the data on my pages, I can see that you are an expert in determining whether the data is copied or if I developed it. So I guess there is no reason for me to tell you that it is all original data ... because you already know it isn't. Where did you obtain your psychic ability? During one of your intimate sessions with a horse? Any bullet, regardless of the design or caliber, but of identical weights and traveling at the same velocity will have the same kinetic and potential energy. (Or is Einstein et. al. also a bunch of horses' asses?) As far as "punch" is concerned, all FMJ bullets are designed NOT to expand, and will make a small hole in and a small hole out, leaving behind very little of it's "punch". The whole idea behind a FMJ bullet in combat is that it wounds and does not mutilate... And, unless there are elephants, rhinos, or hippos in Sweden, a FMJ bullet is not the bullet of choice. As to another statement made by someone that all benchrest titles are owned by Remington and Winchester bullets, and all benchrest shooters use these bullets because they are best, I have no idea where you get your information from, but please don't tell Sierra or Hornady! They would be greatly upset to know that their bullets continually take matches yet are third-rate bullets! As for what I read, at least it requires reading ability, and preferably without having to move my lips...or are you still at the stage of drooling over pictures? One final point I might as well make here, and it concerns my knowledge and my abilities... Other than formal education (which includes 3 college degrees) and 56 years of shooting and almost as many years of reloading experience, I suggest you take the time to browse the following pages. That is if you can tear yourself away from the latest copy of Guns & Ammo... http://stevespages.com/page7.htm General Firearms http://stevespages.com/page7a.htm IPB Of Firearms http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm Firearms Manuals http://stevespages.com/page8.htm General Reloading http://stevespages.com/page8b.htm Software Download http://stevespages.com/page8c.htm Reloading Data http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm Cartridge Drawings http://stevespages.com/page8e.htm All About Bullets http://stevespages.com/page8f.htm Terminal Ballistics | |||
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genlemen I am sorry if i caused a lot of confusion for you. in each country the hunting ground is shaping the choice of firearms and cartridges. the long and open country covered by snow will not allow you to approach smal games like a cappercaille on the top of a tree nor sitting gees in the middle of a feild. In Sweden it is normal to hunt SMAL EDIBLE GAMES with solid bullets and many ammo makers making fmj or other kinds of solid bullet(for exemple NOrma F�gel=bird rounds in 222 r and 7x57R in 150 grain) for this purpose. when i lived in France FMJ bullets were banned as war material!!! it is different in each country. all i wanted to know was if the other hunter around the world have experience with this kind of hunting and share it with me. i 've shot a lot of smal games with fmj and it is true that fmj often leave a litle energy in the games body ,but it is enough deadly on smal games and if it hits the major bone then it makes a lot of damage and ruins a lot of good meat. i've read many time in USA hidehunters hunting coyote or fox using fmj for saving the good skin.recently some ammo maker like sako and lapua produced fmj bullets with a cutting edge for assuring better performance on game it works like a high velocity punch. i was curious to know if there are such bullets made in the other countries. in sweden competitors are often using 168 or 190 gr boattail match bullets not surplus fmjs or solids intended for hunting. i am sorry ,because of may bad english i hope you will excuse me,well it is not my native language. sorry Mr ricciardely we don't have rhino or buffalo in sweden ,but if we had surely i would use somewhat better caliber combination than fmj spitzer 150 grain for them even if many rhino and jumbos had been yearly killed with this kind of ammos by the poachers I wish you agree with me this time. all the best danny | |||
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Hey Danny: sorry for all the wrong answers, pompous answers, off-topic answers, and lectures. With Sako and Lapua on your side of the pond, you likely have access to the best fmj's in production. And you certainly seem capable of determining what will work best for your hunting. Most of us probably learned more from your replies, than the ones sent your way! Good luck and good shooting! | |||
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I had a 308 win that would shoot UMC factory FMJ's into a ragged hole at 100 Yards. I couldn't get any other factory or handload to do the same in that rifle. A couple loads would do under an inch though (not FMJ's). | |||
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