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one of us |
What are the consequences (if any) of any lubricant(s), grease, or oil in whatever amount(s) being either on the cartridge case walls or the chamber walls when firing? Mainly concerned with bolt gun shooting, but other actions and guns may be of interest also (i.e. pistols, semi-autos, pumps, etc.). To put it another way, what happens if your chamber walls and cases are NOT completely UNlubricated? I'm especially interested in how this effects ease of bolt operation - know of an individual who was having difficult bolt operation (Rem 700 or Win 70) so lubricated cases trying to fix problem - wondering if lube aggravated his problem or not. Has anyone tried lubing a case to see what happens? Benchresters are the fussiest - what do they say about this? Figgertheyottaknow. [This message has been edited by sonofagun (edited 02-13-2002).] | ||
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| one of us |
An oily chamber will prevent the case from getting a grip on the chamber wall. This then would increase the thrust back against the bolt. The chamber wall should be clean and dry without any lubricant. | |||
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| one of us |
Greater preassure/velocity and inconsistency. If this is kept up over time, I would also expect shortened barrel life. On the extreme end, KB! Keep everything clean. Run a tight lubricant patch. Then run a tight clean patch. Use a bore guide to avoid this condition entirely. Most reloading manuals do not cover this as your particular firearm manuals already have. | |||
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One of Us |
Ditto Ray Gunter & welcome to the forum. Aquavit - a bore guide is great and you should always use one when cleaning your bore. However, a bore guide, by design, will protect the chamber from solvent, patches, and brushes. As a result, you must remove the bore guide and clean the chamber with a bore mop and a few dry patches. Your chamber should always be free of oil when shooting at the range. | |||
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| one of us |
Its undesirable but a little residue in the chamber will do no harm, it cooks right out..were back in the technology, theory mode again. Africans, So. Americans and folks in India, alaska shoot well oiled barrels and chambers all the time, high rust areas....Hunters have been getting away with it for years, where's the case gonna go?? I have never heard of a confirmed blow up from this. I have about decided it's all bunk, but I could be wrong. You gotta admit, if your knowledgable, there is a lot of excepted false theroy floting around the gun kingdom.... ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
quote: This made me wonder. So I looked. My rem 700 does say to dry the bore and chamber. It was under 'maintenance and lubrication'. I had missed the importance of the dry chamber, but that is my fault. My ruger book has something under cleaning to dry the bore and chamber, then says to lightly oil all the internals. Hmm, at first I thought this included the bore and chamber. I guess not. I found the manual for the 788. Now that says very little. Then on thinking of the 8mm mauser, I have never had a manual. Or the 17 enfield. Hmm. I seem to remember looking in a reloading manual to find out how they recommended removeing the case lube. I don't think I found anything in that manual. I would think chamber and bore cleaning should be in the cleaning kit instuctions, also. Sorry, I'm not sure if or where I have such instructions.
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| <Makalu> |
If think having some oil in the chamber doesn't matter anything. At least not for normal rifle ammunition (for 22 lr and pistols it may be different). It is right, that the case will not getting grip in the chamber, but this additional grip is very small because your case is not capable to withstand a high force in bold direction. In our German forum we have recently made some calculations about the additional force on the bold, it's really nothing. Also H&K recommends some oil for the first round in a semi auto to avoid that the first round will should different. My tests have shown it works more or less. I know a German gunsmith who is also oiling his cases to increase case life. If think this oil story is coming from the black powder time. Too much oil in the bore will be something else! | ||
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| one of us |
I have always said that the increase in bolt thrust from oil in the chamber is insignificant. It can have some effect on accuracy but again insignificant outside match rifle requirements. Grease in the chamber was a theory put forward to explain bolt failures in early Springfields but the truth is that faulty heat treating was the cause and the grease was perhaps a contributing factor but it is hard to say for sure. Regards, Bill | |||
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| <Dutchgus> |
I remembered reading something about this subject a long time ago. I finally found it in a German book "Jagdballistik" by Walter Lampel. The German research institute DEVA dit some testing years ago. They compared 5 shot groups fired at 100 meter with different types of rifle and different calibres. They fired one group from a dry chamber and onother group after the chamber had been greased with a gun grease named Unisol and they compared the diameter of the groups and the change in point of impact. The testing of a .308 bolt action with a heavy barrel resulted in a "no difference". They found however considerable negative effects due to the grease in all the other tests. For example: drilling in .30-06 groups went from 1.7 cm to 5.2 cm POI changed 3.5 cm; bolt action in .30-06 groups went from 2.0 to 5.0 cm POI changed about 3.5 cm; Steyr bolt action (rearward locking lugs)in .30-06 group size identical at about 5.0 cm but POI changed over 20 cm!! Reading this, I consider it wise to be sure that not only your barrel is "dry" but also your chamber. | ||
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| <Makalu> |
Hello Dutchguns, if think with the influence of the shot groups they are right. Also the POI may change. Anyhow if you have some oil (or like one German guy, some wax) on all rounds it will be again very stable. Well, I'm more afraid to have to much pollution on the cases because of the oil or wax.. From the point of security (presser on the bold), it doesn't seems to be a big matter. If you would like to have small groups you should go for a try chamber, et least for most of the guns. I had very good results with a semiauto in 223 and some oil on the cases, but it is a very dirty thing. [This message has been edited by Makalu (edited 02-17-2002).] | ||
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| <Mats> |
Well: 1) An oily/waxy/what-have-youey CHAMBER does Jack Schitt. NO additional backthrust compared to a zero-headspace situation. Cases will stretch less, I oil my case for fireforming. 2) An oily/waxy/what-have-youey BARREL will increase pressure, decrease accuracy, change average POI and might even create dangerous pressures in certain situations. Joe Average's difficulty to distinguish between these things is why all manuals say that you should dry out the chamber. -- Mats | ||
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| <Don Krakenberger> |
Somehow I have a broken cleaning rod on my bench that has a worn out .44 cal bore brush on it. I can't tell you how perfect it works to wrap a 12 gauge shotgun patch around it to swab out the chamber after withdrawing the bore guide--it always picks up a little something that was left behind. | ||
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