I've been reloading .223 for about 10 years for a bolt action rifle. I have had my Hornady FL resizing die set to just contact the shell holder. I recently got an AR-15 and this method produced a lot of jams. I started setting the die a quarter of a turn beyond the contact point with the shell holder and the jams stopped. Meanwhile I ordered a Lyman .223 Case length gauge. Now I am finding that the cases are still too long to fit the maximum cut on the gauge. When I try to set the shoulder back even more I can't do it. There's no way my dies will set the shoulder back enough to fit the gauge. What's going on? I'm using Federal brass.

I have loaded a LOT of 223, for bolt and AR-15's.

I would try a different full length die, a RCBS or maybe a Redding or Forester.

If that does not work get a different shell holder and try the dies again.

Get one of these

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23612/...less_Steel_Case_Gage

Size your brass to fit into this gauge.

I've not loaded for an AR-15, but have a question. Is a small base die a good route to go for this rifle?
I have two bolt action 223's that I load for.

Don

I don't use the SB die.

gotta go along with 450 - i think you got a bum die. not unusual for hornady in my experience. i got rid of all my hornady dies. never have problems with rcbs, redding, or forster

I've simply taken an extra shell holder and hit the top of it with a file until it allowed me to set the shoulder where I needed it. In your case you could have one for bolt one for AR. Rather cheap fix.

quote:

Originally posted by clerkofkirk:
I've been reloading .223 for about 10 years for a bolt action rifle. I have had my Hornady FL resizing die set to just contact the shell holder. I recently got an AR-15 and this method produced a lot of jams. I started setting the die a quarter of a turn beyond the contact point with the shell holder and the jams stopped.

Now the FL Die is set properly for the AR-15.

quote:

Meanwhile I ordered a Lyman .223 Case length gauge. Now I am finding that the cases are still too long to fit the maximum cut on the gauge. When I try to set the shoulder back even more I can't do it. There's no way my dies will set the shoulder back enough to fit the gauge. What's going on? I'm using Federal brass.

The "Thingy" is misleading you into thinking there is a problem when there is none. As long as the rifle is feeding and functioning fine at your current FL Die Setting, you are good to go.
-----

Concerning the "Thingy" - give it to some one you dislike, sell it to Woods, return it for a Refund, hang it on the wall to remind yourself that you got "Suckered" into buying it, or Trash it and forget it.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

I would suggest you buy/borrow, etc. either a Moe's gauge or the Sinclair system for measuring just what size your fired case is and resize slightly under that. The method of setting the die as per mfg.'s directions does work to a degree, but it is hit or miss. The measurement I am talking about gives you the numerical value of the distance from the datum line/shoulder half way down, to the rear of the case and that is the dimension of your particular chamber taken from a fired case in your rifle. The closer you have your resized brass to match that of the chamber the less wear and tear on the brass. High power shooters will resize few, 2-.004, under the chamber so as to not produce jams/tight fits, etc. Until you have an actual number reading it is hard to size using the std. drop in chamber measurement device. I don't think you can buy the Moe's gauge anymore?? but the Sinclair system works with your calipers and it works very well and the "kit" they sell will work for quite a few calibers. Just a suggestion.

PS: Federal brass is not the best brass to use for the last ones I used, several years ago, the primer pockets are quite soft. OK for few shots, but life is not there. Few High Power shooters will use Federal due to that issue. Again, just a suggestion.

I've reloaded for several different AR-15's. It's rare but I do have one that requires me to use a small-base sizing die to function properly. It obviously has a tighter chamber than is normal. Setting your press for 1/4 turn Cam-over usually works but not always.

If I were you I'd try a small base die. It was a quick and easy fix for the problems I had with the one tight chambered AR-15 that I have.

I also like the Wilson Case guages that Dillon sells (what Zeke posted for you above). It gives a quick and easy way to check to see if you got the case sized properly as well as proper trim length..............................DJ

As mentioned earlier go with a small base die. I have a high school high power team and I load 30,000 rounds a year. The small base die is the way to go. Make sure that you make the die touch and cam over on the shell holder.

Tried "smoking" the case but it wouldn't light in my pipe. No really, I couldn't really tell where the case was stopping in the case gauge.

OK, then I tried the cheap fix and sacrificed an extra shell holder. Set the shoulder waaaaaaay back...obviously too much by visual inspection and the case would still not go down into the case length gauge. So I figured the die was not sizing the base of the case enough. I cut a rejected case (Federal...primer pocket too loose) in two thus eliminating the shoulder all together. Ran this shortened case throught the die and it still wouldn't go down in the case length gauge. OK, I resized another reject case using the 1/4 turn past contact with the shellholder method and reduced the size of the base with a dremel grinder and steel wool. Voila, the case dropped right in perfectly.

It looks like I "need" a small base die if I want to be anal about making the cases fit my $16 "Thingy" case length gauge or...

I can just keep on sizing my dies as I have been, experience no jams and rock on.

The only question I have which remains is...

Will a small base dies "work" my brass more and thus shorten case life?

clerkofkirk:
Some potential causes for your case hanging up in the case gage.
1 The case neck off center.
2 Case neck out of round.
3 The gage is cut for a different 223 chamber design than the one for your rifle.
4 The case body is banana shaped. Case body brass thick on one side and thin on the other side. Spring back after firing is unequal. Leaving a slight bow to the body.

If the resizing with the die screwed in one quarter turn extra is producing flawless feed and function in your gun as you have said. The gage isn't suited for your rifle. See number 3 above. If this is the case, dump the gaqe.
And ...you don't need a small base die! Another solution to a problem you don't have.

muck

I MUST AGREE WITH HOTCORE. IF YOUR RIFLE IS FEEDING WITH YOUR DIE SETTING THROW THE THINGY AWAY AND HAVE FUN.
excuse the caps handicaped typist.
Lyle

quote:

Originally posted by clerkofkirk:
...Will a small base dies "work" my brass more and thus shorten case life?

I hate this kind of answer - "Maybe"!

The Small Base Sizer typically squeezes the Pressure Ring(widest diameter on a Fired non-belted Case forward of the Extraction Groove) a bit more than a regular FL Die. So, when you continue to fire the Case, the Pressure Ring will expand back to the point at which the Load/Chamber stops the Expansion. Since you reduce it more and it expands more(than if FLRed, then the Case is experiencing more Stretching and Work Hardening at the Pressure Ring.

That makes it sound like a bad idea, but... the Extraction Cycle is often strong enough to render Cases useless before the Small Base Die causes a problem. You could experience Extraction Problems, Stove Piping, Jams, etc. due to the Rims becoming damaged during Extraction. So, that might be what causes you to Scrap the Cases. Depends on the Load and Chamber.

Only way to know is to try them and see. By the way, I'd encourage you to check for Insipient Case Head Separations with the old Chisel Tip bent Paper Clip inside the Case at the Pressure Ring. This could also cause your Cases to become scrap.

Lots of things go on in Semi-Autos that you have to keep an eye on. Doesn't mean they are bad to use, just different than a Bolt Action.

Best of luck to you.

I had an out of battery kaboom with my AR when using "sized and trimmed" LC mil surp brass from a supplier. It blew the floor plate out of the mag and took a couple of teeth off the bolt. Injured only my feelings.

There is nothing like a kaboom to take away your enthusiasm for reloading. I stopped for a couple of years.

Now I have a small based FL resizing die.

I bought a couple of chamber gauges (Lyman) from Midway last week too for $16 ea.

Be safe!

quote:

Originally posted by Burlington Rd:
I had an out of battery kaboom with my AR when using "sized and trimmed" LC mil surp brass from a supplier. It blew the floor plate out of the mag and took a couple of teeth off the bolt. Injured only my feelings.

There is nothing like a kaboom to take away your enthusiasm for reloading. I stopped for a couple of years.

Now I have a small based FL resizing die.

I bought a couple of chamber gauges (Lyman) from Midway last week too for $16 ea.

Be safe!

So how can you blame you kaboom on the full length standard resizing die? You can't. You had either a high primer or a very very soft primer.

When you have the rifles in hand that you are loading for. Set the die so the case will fit the bolt gun, without pressure to close the bolt and call that rifle good.
On the AR remove the upper from the lower, turn the upper upside down, put a resized case in the chamber and close the bolt carrier using your thumb only. If the bolt closes with thunb pressure you are good, if not set the die down a 1/4 turn at a time till it closes.

quote:

Originally posted by DFC:
When you have the rifles in hand that you are loading for. Set the die so the case will fit the bolt gun, without pressure to close the bolt and call that rifle good.
On the AR remove the upper from the lower, turn the upper upside down, put a resized case in the chamber and close the bolt carrier using your thumb only. If the bolt closes with thunb pressure you are good, if not set the die down a 1/4 turn at a time till it closes.

If you do that procedure remember you will have to overcome force of the extractor slipping over the rim and the force of the ejector spring.

How many pounds of force would over come that resistance? I think 2 or 3 pounds would cover it.

I'll bet I could push 15 or so pounds with my thumb easily, but I doubt if I could push hard enough to close a bolt carrier on an undersized case.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by clerkofkirk:
I've been reloading .223 for about 10 years for a bolt action rifle. I have had my Hornady FL resizing die set to just contact the shell holder. I recently got an AR-15 and this method produced a lot of jams. I started setting the die a quarter of a turn beyond the contact point with the shell holder and the jams stopped.

Now the FL Die is set properly for the AR-15.

quote:

Meanwhile I ordered a Lyman .223 Case length gauge. Now I am finding that the cases are still too long to fit the maximum cut on the gauge. When I try to set the shoulder back even more I can't do it. There's no way my dies will set the shoulder back enough to fit the gauge. What's going on? I'm using Federal brass.

The "Thingy" is misleading you into thinking there is a problem when there is none. As long as the rifle is feeding and functioning fine at your current FL Die Setting, you are good to go.
-----

Concerning the "Thingy" - give it to some one you dislike, sell it to Woods, return it for a Refund, hang it on the wall to remind yourself that you got "Suckered" into buying it, or Trash it and forget it.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

+1

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by DFC:
How many pounds of force would over come that resistance? I think 2 or 3 pounds would cover it.

I'll bet I could push 15 or so pounds with my thumb easily, but I doubt if I could push hard enough to close a bolt carrier on an undersized case.

I was just pointing out that you made it sound like the bolt is going to close ever so easy. Didn't make the statement to start a pissing contest, but a better way (albeit harder) is to cam the case rim under the extractor and lever the ejector down while pushing the bolt home. Then there is no resistance from either of those parts.