I have never purchased "second-hand" brass. Always factory fresh and brand new, and even primed when possible. However, as an experiment, I recently purchased 2,000 9MM "...once-fired, sorted and processed commercial brass..." from an outfit called Arms And Ammo.

Their price was $15 per thousand, plus shipping and handling. Well the "shipping and handling" came to another $16. This brought the price up from 1.5 cents each to 2.3-cents each.

Before ordering this brass I contacted the outfit and asked exactly what "processed" means to them. (To me it means at the least that the brass has been cleaned, and sometimes it even means cleaned, de-primed and resized.) The gal I spoke with told me that their brass is all sorted and cleaned. That it was all commercial brass (NO military, NO crimped primers, NO steel or aluminum cases, NO Berdan primed brass), and once fired.

The first thing I noticed when I opened the bags was that this brass never saw the insides of a tumbler, or had been cleaned in any way. So much for the "cleaned" BS!

Well, the next thing I noticed, after breaking the first de-capping pin, was that there was indeed Berdan primed cases...MANY Berdan primed cases. The second thing I noticed was that not all the brass was 9MM! There was some .380ACP, some .40 S&W and even some .22 LR cases! So much for the "sorted" BS!

Then I ran into the crimped cases ... lots of crimped military cases, with headstamps ranging from 1941 to 1998! So much for the "commercial" BS!

Then I ran into the cases that were split and/or had blown primer pockets.

I started looking a little closer at some of the cases, and wouldn't you know it? I actually found crimped military cases on which the crimp had been beveled-out! So much for the "once-fired" BS!

Well, after tossing those "2,000" cases into the tumbler, after de-capping and resizing those "2,000" cases, after running those "2,000" cases through the ultrasonic cleaner, here is what I found:

Actual number of reloadable 9MM cases: 1,626 (paid for 2,000 and got 1,600 ... that brings to cost up to almost 3-cents each)
Number of Berdan primed cases: 78
Number of crimped military cases: 235
Number of .22 LR cases: 23
Number of .380 cases: 26
Number of .40 S&W cases: 18

Headstamps:
Aguilla: 55
AMERC: 8 (all ruptured with blown primer pockets)
CBC: 16
CJ: 5
Cor-Bon: 2
CP: 159
Federal: 42
Frontier: 4
GB: 3
Geco: 3
GFL: 161
HP: 5
IMI: 8
LA: 3
PARA: 17
PMC: 368
PMP: 32
Remington: 160
S&B: 68
S&W: 1
Speer: 51
Winchester: 463

Hell, I even found 6 cases that had been resized and primed...

My intention is to tell you to watch out who you buy your brass from ... and definately do NOT buy from Arms And Ammo!

Steve, why did you even dick around with that crap!!? You should have packed it up and shipped it back C.O.D. then called your CC company to dispute charge!
You don't have accept trash like that.

It is a bit late now that YOU have processed the brass. Send them a certified letter including the list you just had, explain what you had been told on the phone. Demand a refund of whatever you feel is fair and contact your CC company to tell them to begin a dispute process. Go after these turds.

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Like I said, it was an experiment. I wanted to see if it was really worth it to buy used brass and go through all the trouble associated with it.

Considering that I could have bought factory fresh new brass for 5-cents each, and that it cost me 3-cents each for this stuff, plus I had to tumble, de-prime, resize, wash and sort it, plus the $$$ spent on media and MEK, and the numerous broken de-capping pins, not to mention the time spent, I reached a firm decision.

I'll keep buying factory fresh brass for 2-cents each more...

So, what was their response? I trust that you did contact them with your complaint.

Sent e-mail, have not yet had a reply.

I have purchased 9mm once fired from a company out of los Angeles. The shipped price was 1 cent. It did need some cleaning, but was almost all good once fired brass. Just thought I'ld throw my 2 cents in. I don't remember the name of the company - got it out of shotgun news, but was a small place in Burbank? I still have a lot to reload and don't havce to worry about losing some.

By the way, Mr. R. I have really enjoyed your reloading site.

Dale

Glad you like my site.

I just received an offer from a fellow shooter/reloader. Seems he has 750,000 (or so) once-fired 9mm cases, most with the same headstamp, all civilian, and he has offered to send me as much as I want if I just pay the shipping.

Kinda makes me think a little...

It is a damn shame that you cannot trust a company (or its representatives) when ordering over the phone, net! I hope a lot of people read this thread and that this company will be more honest in the future.

I would be happy to pay shipping to get some once fired brass! Please have the guy contact me (e-mail is listed in my profile), i will be happy to help him out....

mike

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NRA Life Member

United States of America, Love it or LEAVE IT!

[This message has been edited by mssmagnum (edited 01-20-2002).]

I have purchased various components from Arms and Ammo (Missouri-based) at gun shows and never had a problem. I hope they make it right with you. Please let us know how it goes.

Thanks,
BigIron

I sent e-mail on Friday, and received a reply this morning...

They offered to send me another 2000 or a refund, if I ship these back...right....like I'm gonna ship them back after I tumbled them, de-capped them, re-sized them, washed them, and sorted them.

I told them I would settle for 400 "real processed" cases, totally free of any charges, to settle the problem...I haven't had a reply to my offer.

Man what a shame!! I have bought a T O N of reloading supplies from Arms&Ammo and never had a problem... (( Arms&Ammo, Ash Grove MO ))

Received another note from Arms And Ammo this morning. They are sending me another 400 pieces of 9mm brass.

Will let you guys know what shape the new stuff is in when it gets here.

So it seems your "experiment" worked. What I found out from your experiment is that you ordered someting without having a clue what it cost as far as shipping. Seems you took the trouble to CALL them when you wanted to find out what kind of steal you were getting for that price but you EMAILED them when things didn't work out for you. What did you honestly expect at that price? What did the ad say that you were ordering?

I've dealt mail order with Arms and Ammo a few times for large quantities of powder, bullets and supplies. They have gone out of their way to CALL me if there was the slightest problem with an order. The owner and his staff have been courteous and proffesional.

Have any other "experiments"?

Dipstick...

I called them to verify that the brass was sorted and processed.

The shipping charges are not being discussed here. What is being discussed is the quality of the product I ordered.

As for what you learned I have no idea. This wasn't for your educational benefit (although it is very obvious that you should have finished 3rd grade), but was for me to see what sort of product was being shipped and if it was reasonable to buy fired brass instead of new.

As for what the ad "said", it said nothing at all...it didn't talk!

Get off my ass...

Some shipper's idea of "cleaned" means it got washed in a bucket and there's no dirt in most of them.

"Sorted" can mean that it's mostly pistol brass, no rifle stuff.

"Commercial" can mean that it's commerically produced -- even if it's commercially produced military brass.

More and more I'm finding that one of the best sources of brass is to buy new ammo -- bulk military boxer primed, un-crimped stuff like Lake City Arsenal.

Also, I pick up tons of brass at the local ranges, gravel pits. But I sit and sort it, check primers, head stamps, etc. It often takes a fair amount of time to sort out the good brass from the garbage -- especially in stuff like .223 Rem.

But I like sitting at the bench, going over my stuff. Brass is part of the stuff I'll go over.

Sure went through alot of trouble telling us not to buy from Arms and Ammo if it wasn't for our educational benefit. Surprised your keyboard still works from all the tears that had to fall into it.

Another update from Arms And Ammo.

I just received a piece of e-mail telling me they are shipping me today, via USPS, 500 pieces of their "best" once-fired 9mm brass.

Dipstick...

There is a great difference between "education" and "information"...

Even you can handle "information"...

Even though it was 17 below zero (F) outside, and there was a 9 mph breeze and a light snow falling, I hooked the dogs to the sled and mushed my way to the post office this morning.

Waiting for me there was a little box from Arms And Ammo. Inside were 500 of the nicest pieces of used 9mm brass I had ever seen!

It is a shame that it took this amount of time and correspondence to finally get it right.

If this is the general quality of what they ship (which many posters have told me it would be) I may try them again...

steve -

It was 17 below?!?! I thought you guys were having a warmish winter.

Brrr.

R-WEST

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"it is up to God to judge these terrorists; it is up to us to arrange their meeting" Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf

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