Yesterday my hunting partner shot a spike horn buck which, upon inspection, had a really short neck and a really old face. We suspect he was older than first thought.

This healthy animal was shot at a distance of 35 yards while quartering away. Bullet entered midway through the onside ribs, plowed a nice hold through one lung and put him down right there. On approach, my partner shot him through the neck as we was convulsing.

The first shot was never found in the animal as it did not exit. The finisher through the neck penciled right through. Both were Federal Fusion factory loads in 7mm-08 and were 140 grain bullets. I assume muzzle velocity in the 2700fps area?

Are Fusions bonded bullets? Trying to figure out the bullet performance. Obviously, the animal was killed. I suspected the bullet would have exited, though.

Thoughts?

Jeff

Techno=speak ? Metals don't have molecules , only atoms and crystals !
I'll still wait till I see field results. There are still variables such as shape, plating and lead alloy. 35 yds is will usually show some fragile behaviour .

I read the article. I have never seen a bonded bullet fragment into nothing at short range. This is not warp speed here and the ribs of a deer do not offer the same sort of resistance as for instance a moose would.

To be fair we do have a dead deer so the discussion is mostly academic but nonetheless I am curious.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Bullet entered midway through the onside ribs, plowed a nice hold through one lung and put him down right there.
Jeff

35 yds is a pretty close shot. Do you think that the bullet turned frag grenade? The description of the bullet sounds reminiscent of the Speer deep curl's, which struck me as sort of a phony, pseudo bonding process.

It's all I can come up with. Yet, there was a definitive wound channel bisecting one lung completely.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Bullet entered midway through the onside ribs, plowed a nice hold through one lung and put him down right there.
Jeff

35 yds is a pretty close shot. Do you think that the bullet turned frag grenade? The description of the bullet sounds reminiscent of the Speer deep curl's, which struck me as sort of a phony, pseudo bonding process.

#35 yards a close shot not here in the north woods I would say a large percentage of are deer are killed under 50 yards. I have killed several under the 5 yard mark.

Maybe that's why I really enjoy my 300 savage with a 165 loafing along at 2400fps.

I'd guess that the bullet did exit, probably just not an obvious hole and/or it was missed.

I just shot one that made a small hole in the hide and only left a little mark on the off shoulder outer layer of fat. I have seen deer shot where more than one person searched hard and couldn't find a hole in or out of the hide. Usually on butchering you can find where it went out.

Of course it might well be that the bullet fragmented and you just missed the jacket when gutting. 35 yards is close and the velocity would most likely be high enough to accomplish that with a cup and core bullet. Ribs are very hard bone. They need to be to have the needed spring to protect the contents of the chest. Legs, spine and shoulder blades might be heavier, and "stronger", but they tend to be less dense.

On Friday I shot my buck with a 7x57 and 175 gr rn cup n cores. awfully close. lung and liver due to quareting angle and 50 yards later one dead deer. small entry, broken rib, perforated lung and liver, slightly larger exit hole.

about what one would expect at 2400 fps.

I've often found that bullets stay inside critters when shot at close range; however, exit when shot at distance with the same rifle/bullet combo.

Something about the extremely high speed lowers the potential for an exit.

Being a NP proponent, I've made it my mission to test bullets both before and while hunting. The only way I have been able to keep NPs in deer is to shoot them in the chest as the deer faces me. Otherwise, They exit.
Elk and Nilgai hold NPs on broad side shots, but only after the bullet has gone side to side.
Even the little 22 & 25 cals will travel the length of a deer.
Bullet integrity ? Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
I've often found that bullets stay inside critters when shot at close range; however, exit when shot at distance with the same rifle/bullet combo.

Something about the extremely high speed lowers the potential for an exit.

IMO most simple cup and core bullets are subject to both distance and velocity windows of operation. Especially the lighter ones. I believe that most lighter C&C bullets are specifically designed with lighter jackets. Which means they have a smaller optimum window of effective operation. A slower, heavier for caliber slug no doubt would have had more penetration.

Basically the bullet did its job. It reached the vitals and destroyed them. Still seems like uncommonly weak penetration for that combination though.

I dont think Fusions are a super tough bullet. Last spring I fired a 165 grain Fed Fusion (factory load) out of my Ruger GSR (.308 with a 16" barrel) into water. The recovered Fusion bullet out of that short barrel only weighed 139.5 grains.

Last spring I shot a coyote at less than 50 yards and the exit wound was much larger than I see when hitting them with a 165g BallisticTip out of my .30-06.

So in my limited experience the Federal Fusions open up pretty quick and aren't afraid to dump a little weight in their ballistic journey.

I shot a spike buck at 50 yards with 115 Fusion out of a 6.8 spc. Heart/lung broadside with no exit. Buck dropped dead right where he was standing but I was a little surprised there was no exit since the bullet was probably only going 2400 fps at impact.

This is what has sold nosler partitions for decades. Front is light and blows off while back is lead in a cup and hangs together...

On the one extreme, .22 bullets from the swift turn insides to hamburger/shreds. Solids go in one side and come out the other...

Haven't studied the Fusion. .308 is not a hot rod so bullets will not be super tough. You got a dead animal so It seems to have done its work.

This is what you get with factory and the reason for reloading. Knew a man with a .270. Lost a quarter of each deer with 130 grainers so went up to 150s (for mooose and elk and bear...). Deer got dead and he didn't have near as much meat for the dogs... Luck. Happy Holidays.

From the description, Fusion bullets are simply plated lead, ala Berry's Bullets which show a velocity limit on every container. I would imagine the swaging to final size would give every opportunity for the lead core to separate from the copper jacket, although my knowledge of metallurgy is only wading pool deep.

Fusions are lightly constructed bullets designed to expand properly at rather mild velocity for the caliber used. They are designed for deer and antelope. I suspect on the lengthwise shot the bullet would come apart at such close range and sometimes you just lose the bullet in the innards but the going away shot was obviously a good effective kill. At very close range with high velocity such as a neck shot that penciled through in your case I suggest you missed the neck bone and probably cut the spine or a major blood vessel thereby not putting much stress on that fragile bullet.

No bullet is perfect for every situation. A fragile bullet will come apart and kill like a lightening strike most of the time, but one should not count on that as it may explode on the skin or shoulder blade for instance, and animal recovery may fail for sure..A tough bullet may expand only a little bit and allow the animal to run up to perhaps a 100 yards but you will get an exit hole and a blood trail. Your job is to match the bullet to the game and get somewhere between the two extremes I mentioned above. On Whitetail with the 7-08 I would opt for the 130 gr. Speer or 145 gr. Speer, it has workded for me. I also like Nosler in all calibers over 25 cal. They expand on contact and penetrate like the devil and 99% of they time leave an exit hole and lots of blood, keeping in mind that if you get a small exit hole with a Nosler then you just blew up everthing inside the animal and the base exited, if you get a large exit with a Nosler you got less damage inside and a large exit and more blood on the ground, either way they work everytime IMO..I agree with Ross Seyfried when he stated in print something on the order of those that claim Nosler failure just don't know what they are talking about or have really not used them...Many folks misread bullet performance IMO, its more complicated than the size of an exit hole, or the reaction of a shot animal.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I also like Nosler in all calibers over 25 cal.

Ray, Wonder if you would elaborate on this. I have an "n" of just one with the small-diam partitions. 100 gr .243. But it resulted in a longer run than I'm used to with either more fragile projos, or any type of larger diam projo. There was almost zero blood trail. We had about 1" white and my son was able to see the faintest mist of pink I literally could not see. Deer ran down a hill about 100 yds. Was nervous for a few minutes but the kid did fine. Placement was really excellent high-lungs raked from ahead of left shoulder to exit near back of rib cage on other side. I can kinda see where a more explosive projo might have put it down quicker albeit no exit - maybe a wider wound channel is best??