I was wondering how many of you guys neck turn? I have been considering it lately due to when I trim with my RCBS Manuel Trimmer, sometimes it is hard to get the pilot aligned with the bullet. That makes me thing there might be a problem with my bolt face on my 300 RUM. So I think I might be putting alot of presser on only one side of the neck getting it off center. If I neck turn, then that would fix that. Right? Also, I have been looking at the Forster and RCBS kit. Any recommendations? If I get the RCBS kit, do I have to buy new pilots with or will the old ones that I trim with work? thanks for any help. Just looking for some better accuracy.
If you are going to neck turn I would suggest the set up from K&M. I neck turned with my lyman and was never happy with the results. The K&M or one from sinclairs is more money but it will do a better job. Most seem to think it does not do a lot for accuracy unless you have a tight neck chamber. I think it is one less variable ruled out in the search for accuracy.
Posts: 178 | Location: Canada | Registered: 03 February 2001
big country, if you end up turning, the trimmer mounted gadgets will generally NOT accomplish a "precision" job. They'll thin the neck, but the uniformity rarely is satisfactory.
The K&M unit is prolly the best solution. I bought the hand held Forster unit, and it is a genuine P.O.S. HTH, Dutch.
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000
quote:Originally posted by bigcountry: I was wondering how many of you guys neck turn? I have been considering it lately due to when I trim with my RCBS Manuel Trimmer, sometimes it is hard to get the pilot aligned with the bullet. That makes me thing there might be a problem with my bolt face on my 300 RUM. So I think I might be putting alot of presser on only one side of the neck getting it off center. If I neck turn, then that would fix that. Right? Also, I have been looking at the Forster and RCBS kit. Any recommendations? If I get the RCBS kit, do I have to buy new pilots with or will the old ones that I trim with work? thanks for any help. Just looking for some better accuracy.
bigcountry/ I don't think that neck turning will fix what you are describing BUT there are advantages to cleaning up a neck for increased accuracy with some lots of brass and some guns and loads.....the alignment problem you are describing could be from burrs on the case head, OR a out of square bolt face or chamber OR a burred/bent collet in the case trimmer.....the case neck is brass the other items of contact are STEEL and the brass bends to the steel.....I have a Forster outside neck turner for my case trimmer and the cam feed is nice for easy turning....for more precise turning the other post is correct..the km or sinclair hand held is more precise but for factory chambers the crank style works well....the NEW RCBS trimmer with the flat case plate aligns much easier and straighter than my older RCBS trimmer with the collets that squeeze the rim,these don't align as well....as to pilots...my Forster has special longer/straight pilots for neck turning that support the neck better and they say you MUST use eack for their special purpose...trimming or turning pilots as they are made differently......again have a smith look at your brass/gun to check for misalignment in the chamber/bolt face or get a case alignment tool such as the casemaster/RCBS...sinclair concentricity/NECO and measure brass before and after shooting in your gun/chamber and see if you have a brass problem or a gun-chamber misalignment problem...rare but very real.....good luck and good shooting!!!
Posts: 687 | Location: Jackson/Tenn/Madison | Registered: 07 March 2001
Outside neck trimming factory chambers is actually retro-productive..all you are doing is thinning a neck and that creates more expansion on each shot and overworks brass and wears it out....Outside or inside trimming is for minimum chambers such as on some custom varmint rifles and most benchrest rifles...I trim for my 6x45 that has only one thousands expansion on firing and will not even chamber an unturned case but I can reload it without resizing if I wanted to..Only trimming required on factory guns is shortening the neck from time to time.
As Ray mentioned neck turning is a waste of time with most factory chambers. The neck dimensions of most SAAMI spec chambers are simply too large to take advantage of a theoretically thinner and more uniform case necks. Ranks right up there with another of my all time goat ropings...trimming pistol brass on rounds like 44 mag or 45 LC...
Thanks guys for the replys. When you guys turned necks on Factory chambers, did it help your accuracy at all or hurt it or you couldn't tell a difference? Thanks again BC
Not one iota of difference in how the ammo shot...maybe even a little worse. All I know is I quickly figured out I had better ways to spend my time and money. Besides a tool to turn the necks you'll also need to buy a micrometer mounted to measure tubing thickness on a mandrel. No sense turning necks without being able to check the thickness...
i'M GONNA "swim against the tide" here. If you really want to get crazy about concentricity it does help. I started neck turning after seeing the sierra video where david tubb recomended it for ALL rifles. I have the k&m set up and can turn about 100 brass in 1-1.5 hours while watching tv. With forester dies in my 300 wby I can turn out loaded rounds with under .002" runnout and most will be .001" runnout. (This is with remington brass which isn't known for super high quality). I ALSO THINK you get the benefit of having exact neck tension using turned brass. HOWEVER- I probably only turn about 10% of the brass I use. Lately I've been buying more federal premium brass--it gives great runnout without the fuss. Also--the Lee collet die, I think also will give you the same end result as neck turning. During the last Packer game I did a "full accurizing" on some winchester 30-06 brass. I would chuck a piece of brass in my drill, turn the neck, use a lee trimmer to trimm and square the case mouth, chamfer inside and out. Then I deburred the flash hole, squared the primer pocket, and neck sized with a hornady neck sizer. I wound up with great runnout--a real consistant feel when drawing the expander through the case mouth. It took about 45 min's to do this to 25 cases. (It kept my hand out of the popcorn bowl--important as I weight 280 lbs!). Will they shoot any better in my hunting rifle??-- Maybe & Maybe not but, it was relaxing, and I don't think it took my accuracy "backwards". Plus all that I did will last for at least 3-4 reloads without having to do it again.
Pardon me while I duck my head as I talk about something as low down as a "factory barrel" but I think neck turning -now I'm not talking about case forming, I'm talking about using a neck turner to uniform the necks, that is to say, knock off the high side or spots- has certainly improved my groups. From several rifles (all with factory barrels). When I use once fired brass and reload with everything the same except half of the cases are neck turned and half are not and get measurable improvments, thats good enough for me. I'm not going to brag about shooting .2's and .3's 'cause I'm not that good of a shot but I am one of the guys that re-loads to shoot so shop time to me is range time missed. If I couldn't see improvements, I wouldn't waste the time.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
Neck turning works on a factory gun, but only if you use bushing reloading dies, like redding.The s type with bushing, that also full length resizes at the same time. The part of the neck that is not sized by the bushing will expand to the factory chamber, centering the round in the middle of the chamber.The fl resizing lets the neck find the center of the chamber.As to trimmers for the length, i use a lee, as it cuts the mouth of the case square. My lyman neck turner works ok. I feel u must have a cut around the whole neck, not just hitting the high spots.
Posts: 1295 | Location: USA | Registered: 21 May 2001
quote:Originally posted by bigcountry: I was wondering how many of you guys neck turn? I have been considering it lately due to when I trim with my RCBS Manuel Trimmer, sometimes it is hard to get the pilot aligned with the bullet. That makes me thing there might be a problem with my bolt face on my 300 RUM. So I think I might be putting alot of presser on only one side of the neck getting it off center. If I neck turn, then that would fix that. Right? Also, I have been looking at the Forster and RCBS kit. Any recommendations? If I get the RCBS kit, do I have to buy new pilots with or will the old ones that I trim with work? thanks for any help. Just looking for some better accuracy.
Placing the headstamp helps. Factory rifles don't benefit from neck turning but being careful to place the headstamp in the same place will give the bullet the same orientation relevant to the bore each time. Rrealizing that the manufacturers do not place the head stamp in the same place relating to case imperfections if you get used to placing them in the same place as the cases are used again and again they will have be closer to placing the bullet in the same place. Try it, you'll like it.
What it boils down too is, that if you think it helps, do it! There are ten different opinions here. Try it you might like it, it may work for you, it may not. It may work for one of your rifles and not another. I turn for my factory Sendero, I think it helps. The rifle is already more accurate than I can hold it anyway! Anyway it sounds impressive in a conversation when you say, "Why yes I neck turn my cases, don't you?" And I'll charge the same amount for the next OPINION. If you feel that it is worth the time spent,IT IS!
Rifles with standard chambers can benefit from neck turning but the amount is frequently unnoticable simply because the rifle lacks the accuracy potential to show it. Also the standard chambers are generally more tolerant of crooked ammunition. If for instance you have a rifle with a standard chamber and are using full length sized brass with the bullet seated into the lands then there is enough room in the chamber to allow the bullet to get a pretty straight start. Usually the improvment from neck turning amounts to about .100". When the rifle is shooting 1" this doesn't amount to much but if the rifle is shooting .4 then it is a significant improvement. I have explained previously how to turn case necks so that they are compatible with your sizing die. Done properly the brass is not worked more and concentricity is of course improved. This in spite of anything Ray says to the contrary! I have used the neck turning attachment for the Forster trimmer for 25 years and am able to turn to within .0001 concentricity and uniformity. There is a bit of a knack in using this tool as any others. The best neck turning I do though I do on the lathe by pressing the brass onto a mandrel. Also itis very easy to hit a predetermined size. A bit slow though and 5500 dollars is a bit much for a case turner.
I will tell you what I do. I shoot several ackley improved calibers Standert chambers and have had problems with dies not sizing the case enough or sizing to much. So I got some lapua or norma brass Fired them and sent them out to neil jones to make a custom full length sizing die. You have a micrometer adjustment to control how much to push shoulder back.get proper fit neck bushing (norma and lapua necks are very dam good)I have found FL sizing with this type of die to be the most accurate way to load ammo in a factory chamber or tight neck. To me in several rifles this metheod is more accurate than any neck sizing die tried. Now a custom die is not cheap, and some may laugh at me for spending that much on a die. But I assure you they won't laugh at the groups.
