My 11 year old son & I have been lurking/reading here on the forums for a good while. We aquired a RCBS "Rock Chucker" press and other needed items for reloading. Bought some reloading mauals, FL die sets, brass, bullets, powder and more, after reading all the info we could for the past 3-4 months.

Last night we sat down and went thru everything very carefully and loaded our first bullet.
We loaded a 7mm-.08, 140 gr. Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail with 40.5 grains of H4895 with a Win. primer.

I have a QUESTION about one thing though...after we seated the bullet (I have corrected the seating depth since), the COL is 2.692" and the suggested COL is 2.730". Is this bullet safe to fire or do we need to pull and load again?

I think we will enjoy this hobby very much and more so the time my son & I get to spend together.

Welcome to AR!

Reloading is a great thing to do together and the time spent is worth way more than what it'll cost.

To answer your question, yes it will be ok to shoot. OAL is based on the standard specs for that round. You'll have to determine what the max oal can be with that bullet, then seat it a little deeper to get off the lands. Often the oal is more limited by magazine length than max allowable by the bullet. When starting out, following the book to the letter is a very good idea. The oal at 2.73 will for sure be safe. As you get comfortable with what your doing you will gradually start changing things like powder charges and seating depth.
When I load for my .308 I check the max allowable by seating a bullet I will be using just a little way into the mouth. I close the bolt on it. This will force it in against the lands. This will show you how long it would be against the lands, and establish a not to exceed length.

Many here will be able to explain things better than I. Welcome to the club! Nate

Quickload thinks that bullet, caliber, powder charge, and 2.730" OAl is 53,121 psi

Changing the OAL to 2.692" changes the pressure to 54,359 psi.

SAAMI lists the maximum pressure for 7mm-08 as 61,000 psi, with proof loads between 79,300 and 85,400 psi.


If you are starting out, you should follow the rules, and it looks like you are still ok.

If you were more advanced, the rules of SAMMI would not mean as much, and I would say that the Mauser brass cartridge case head for a 35,000 psi 8mm is the same as a 65,000 psi .270, and they are really good for the same pressure when handloaded for a strong rifle.

quote:

Last night we sat down and went thru everything very carefully and loaded our first bullet.

My Hodgdon manual lists 40.5gr of H4895 behind a 140 gr bullet as a max load...not to exceed.

You should stick to the starting loads until you gain experience.

This is all info that I need to know. Thank You very much for the help.

These loads will be shot out off a T/C Encore 7mm-.08 w/ bull barrell, I just don't want to blow up anything!
I am kinda scared to fire this cartridge...I guess just first time nervousness.

I would like as much input on this subject from any/all experienced loaders here.

Thanks again

Seating the bullet deeper (decreasing the OAL) effectively decreases the case volume and therefore raises pressure, but only slightly. Bottleneck rifle cartridges have a relatively large volume to bullet diameter ratio, so a small change in seating depth (such as what you described) has a relatively small effect, percentage-wise, on the volume. Handgun cartridges are another matter!

If you don't seat the bullet deep enough, however, you run the risk of jamming the bullet into the lands (i.e. the rifling) of the gun when the cartridge is chambered. This can increase pressure significantly. Some folks do this on purpose, using a reduced powder charge.

As BigNate mentioned, you can determine what this length is yourself by loading a dummy cartridge (no primer or powder) with the bullet seated way too long. Measure the OAL of your too-long cartridge, chamber it in your rifle, and measure it again. The bullet will have been forced deeper into the case. If the length didn't change, it wasn't long enough to begin with. It is also possible for the rifling to "grab" the bullet and pull it partially out of the case, creating an erroneous result. Therefore, repeat the process two or three times to be sure you get consistent results. Also, this method jams the bullet into the rifling with a lot of force, resulting in a length that is slightly longer than "just touching". How much longer, I don't know, but if you subtract .010 and never exceed that, I think you should be safe.

Before you load a bunch of such "max length" rounds, be sure they fit in the magazine. In many rifles, they won't. In that case, just seat your bullets to fit the magazine.

The above process has to be repeated for every different bullet model.

I would also add that if you are measuring the OAL with the bullet tip against you caliper's jaw, you will likely get inconsistent readings. Bullet tips are fairly delicate, especially in the case of exposed lead, meaning they are easily deformed, squashed, or whatever. There are ways around this, but I have to stop typing before I write a book!

quote:

Originally posted by Stickum:
My 11 year old son & I have been lurking/reading here on the forums for a good while. We aquired a RCBS "Rock Chucker" press and other needed items for reloading. Bought some reloading mauals, FL die sets, brass, bullets, powder and more, after reading all the info we could for the past 3-4 months.

Last night we sat down and went thru everything very carefully and loaded our first bullet.
We loaded a 7mm-.08, 140 gr. Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail with 40.5 grains of H4895 with a Win. primer.

I have a QUESTION about one thing though...after we seated the bullet (I have corrected the seating depth since), the COL is 2.692" and the suggested COL is 2.730". Is this bullet safe to fire or do we need to pull and load again?

I think we will enjoy this hobby very much and more so the time my son & I get to spend together.

Actually, the OAL for the 140 Sierra is 2.780". But when I loaded some of these bullets for my brother-in-law I had to seat them way deeper than that, cause they were up against the lands otherwise. If you could carefully chamber a round, perferably a dummy round with no powder and seat them out to lets say 2.800" to see if land marks show up on the bullet, then if they do, seat the bullet a little deeper until they don't show up any longer. Sometimes adding a little smoke from a match or candle to the bullet will show the lands very clearly.

IMO, Rem. 9 1/2 work very well in the 708, as do CCI BR2 primers.

40.5grs. RE15 or Varget works very well with the 139-140 grain bullet, also.

40.5grs. should be safe, though I'd load some softer loads first, such as 38, 38.5, 39 and 39.5grs. 2 shots each. Obviously shoot the 38grs. first and watch for pressure signs, sticky extraction is your first, then cratered primer, then very flat primers. have a good shoot. Jay

Well we shot this load this afternoon and it shot very well, about 1/2" higher than the Federal Prem. 140 gr. factory loads we have. There were no signs of case stress, ejection problems, primer problems or any other signs of trouble.

I feel like we have made a great accomplishment and want to thank everyone here for the excellent information and help.

Fantastic Stickum
Bought a well used RCBS kit. I too took some time and read instuctions. I had an old Serria book, found out 4350 and IMR 4350 are not the same. Wondered why 6.5x55 were spliting case necks. 2700fps +. High side for my 96 Swede.
Now when I get my 98 w/ Adams & Barrnett 6,5x55 barrel from smith, will try that load again. And most of all, LABEL IT!
Wear your safety glasses when reloading. OAL is important, but case length is important too. Too long and increased pressure and maynot be able to chamber a round.
I'm loading for 30-06 for Garand Matches and just started loading 223 with 77 grain bullets for the AR Service rifle matches.
Have fun and be safe.

One word of advice, if you can sit with someone who's got quite a bit of experience you'll greatly improve your learning curve! Especially if they come to your house, use your stuff. Nate

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
One word of advice, if you can sit with someone who's got quite a bit of experience you'll greatly improve your learning curve! Especially if they come to your house, use your stuff. Nate

It is a fact that different people have different learning styles. What you describe would be best for me. I learn by watching someone else do it.
http://www.metamath.com/lsweb/fourls.htm

quote:

Well we shot this load this afternoon and it shot very well, about 1/2" higher than the Federal Prem. 140 gr. factory loads we have. There were no signs of case stress, ejection problems, primer problems or any other signs of trouble.

Stickum,
Welcome to the reloading community. I hope you enjoy this endeavor as much as I do. My concern is the load you've chosen. Starting out with a maximum load is an unsafe handloading practice. While a maximum load may not be a problem in many firearms, it may also be very quite dangerous in another. Every rifle is different, which is why we work up to maximum.

Something else that needs to be considered is the manual you've chosen. 40.5gr of H-4895 is listed in the Hodgdon manual as their max load with that bullet weight, but that load was established with a Swift bullet, not a Sierra. The Sierra manual lists 38.4gr of H-4895 as maximum with their bullet! There is a significant difference in the amount of pressure generated by the same load, but with bullets of different manufacture. Variables include different alloys used in the jackets and different bearing lengths. These characteristics create different amounts of drag and pressure, which is why it is a good idea to know what load is considered max by the bullet maker, not just the powder maker. A change of ANY component used to create a load requires backing down and working back up again. Even if you use all the same components that your reloading manual of choice used, again, every rifle is different.

You mentioned that you noticed no signs of stress or other problems. One thing you should probably do is to measure the pressure ring of your fired handload and compare that measurement to that of a factory load. If your handload measures a greater diameter, you're running higher pressures. Understand that these ammunition manufacturers load their ammo near the edge of the envelope in most cases. It is a very competitive market. Since your handload hit the target 1/2" higher than a factory load, that may be because it had less drop due to higher pressure! In the real world, one shot tells you nothing. The next shot could be 1/2" lower than the factory load. That could be the accuracy limits of the rifle or it could always be the shooter. Along that same vein, a shooter could have absolutely no trouble with the first 4 out of 5 identically prepared cartridges, only to have the fifth one blow up.

Maximum loads mean maximum pressure. There is good reason to listen to the advice contained in EVERY handloading manual to use starting loads and work up slowly.

Sam Taylor,

Well said. That's what I cautioned up the page.

"...after reading all the info we could for the past 3-4 months."

No one with any comprehension skills at all reads the books then in spite of every warning, loads up the very first round ever at maximum powder charge.

"I am kinda scared to fire this cartridge...I guess just first time nervousness."

He has some trepidation yet pulls the trigger anyway. Unbelievable!

This is either a troll or a man who does not wish his 11 year old son to see his 12th birthday. Good luck, Stickum & Son. You're gonna need it.

Thank you all very much for taking the time to respond to my question and inquiry.

I have learned alot from this forum and have loaded some more 7mm-08 cartridges with the 140 gr. Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail with 36 grains of H4895, 36.5 gr. of H4895, & 37 gr. of H4895 to test.

I have also loaded some .270 Win. in Win. Brass, Win. primer, with 130 Nosler Partition Spitzer with 52.5 gr. of H4831SC, 53 gr. of H4831SC & 53.5 gr. of H4831SC.

I have purchased several different loading manuals since I made the original post at the top & I am more cautious about what I am doing since reading all the info you guys have posted here, Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
"I am kinda scared to fire this cartridge...I guess just first time nervousness."

He has some trepidation yet pulls the trigger anyway. Unbelievable!

Then again, "only a fool has no fear." I'm pretty sure I was a little nervous about firing the first cartridge I ever reloaded. I really don't think that's a bad thing. Better than oblivious confidence.