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I've now picked up most of the equipment I need to start and have loaded a few 40-70's for a Marlin 1895CB 26" I want to keep it safe and just want to run this by you guys. I'm just starting out with reloading and would like to get some feedback before I pull the trigger. This is what I have to work with. I will change things up as I learn, but for now I need to stick with these supplies. I have (2) bullet sizes, that I loaded a few of to start with. 300gn JHP and 405gn JFNSP I have IMR 3031 powder I know other powder is preferable in many opinions but this is what I have to work with. Not a lot of choices out there right now. Anyway, I just want to check with some of you guys with the knowledge and experience, to be sure I'm not going to have any major malfunctions at the range. I seemed to get varying data between load sources. Thanks in advanced for your advice. Please, go easy on me, what I've learned is I don't know squat. I wanted to start at the low end of the powder load from what I found in load manuals. This is what I came up with. First, are these loads going to work, and second, what load of the IMR 3031 would you advise other than what I started with? .458 300gn JHP IMR 3031 52.4 gn (Manual said) Low 50.2gn Max 56gn .458 405gn JFNSP IMR 3031 34gn (Manual said) Low 34gn Max 39gn Thanks, Swordfish | ||
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IMR 3031 is perfect for the .45/70. And, in that Marlin, you can use Elmer Keith's classic load of 53 grains of IMR 3031 with the 405 grain bullet. MV will be around 1800 FPS. Of course, you can use less of it as well, for a milder load. In my Ruger No.1, I have used even more, but the No.1 is stronger than the Marlin M95..... "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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Deguello, Thanks for the reply. I'll start increasing the load for the 405gn bullets. Looks like I'm under loaded. I'm wondering if the 34gn load I currently have in the reloaded cartredges with the 405gn bullet is to lite and not push the bullet through the barrel? Same question for the load I have for the 300gn HP's. Anyone? | |||
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If you are developing hunting loads they will not be much fun to shoot due to recoil. Check your data in several manuals and proceed. | |||
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It all depends on what rifle you have and how strong your shoulder is ! The factory loads , IIRC, are loaded to only 18,000 while the SAAMI max is 27,000. They are mild recoil and work fine for deer. You can go up from there. The strongest , Ruger #1 and 1885 Browning can ,with special heavy brass be loaded way up to the 'ouch' level .Even the Marlin can be loaded to 40,000.If you haven't hunted with a 45-70 yet you'll find that 27,000 loads are VERY potent and there is hardly any reason to go higher. Happiness is a warm 45-70 !  | |||
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Personally I run max charges of IMR4198 or RL7 behind a 300gr bullet when I first got my M1895 in the early 80's (mine is a 1972 Marlin 1895) I managed to break my collar bone with it... (TWICE!) before I decided that my continued health and well being (not to mention pain reduction) was more important than keeping the rifle original, so I had my gunsmith fit a Pachymar magnum recoil pad to it while maintaining the maximum length of the stock in the process (I wear 38" sleeves) Load "down"? if I wanted something "lighter" I'd get a 444 or a 375Win I bought and loaded that rifle to use on Pennsylvania whitetails when hunting on public land. yes, it's grotesque overkill for whitetails, but that was the entire point. I wish I could offer you advice on IMR3031 in the 45-70, but I've never used it in this cartridge. I consider it the "go to" powder for for the 30-30Win. If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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That load will be woefully under powered. I ran some 45gr loads under a 300grJHP to site in my new 1895G & they barely make 1450fps. It will clear the bbl but vel. will be around 1200fps (WAG)? The data you have from your manuals is valid, go with that. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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The classic load with 405 grain bullets for the 1886 Winchester is 53 grains of 3031. The Spper Manual #12 lists this load for the modern Marlin 95. I think you will find it rather unpleasant to shoot. | |||
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Great info, thanks to all. I'm loading lite because it's my first at reloading. I was woried it my be to lite. These will be shot at the range. My goal to to come up with a good hog dropping load, but I have to work up to that. I love a good kick to a hunting rifle. One of the reasons I originaly got my 45-70's I will tend towards max loads once I have some confidence. Thanks again, Swordfish | |||
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For a hog dropper use a strongly constructed bullet .In the 300s use a Nosler Partition or Barnes all copper. BTW today's 300 gr @ 1850 matches a Winchester load available 100 years ago !! Still works ! | |||
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I pretty much settled on 50 gr. or 3031 under either a 300 gr. Hornady JHP or the 405 gr. Flat Point-gas checked- that I cast using Lyman's #2. Both loads are MORE THAN ENOUGH for deer-hit 'em with either one and it is bang flop. I shoot them through a Marlin 1895 GS with a Burris Scout scope system/quick detach bases and a XS Ghost Ring for back up. The POI with either boolit is pretty close so if I don't go out past 100 yards I can leave the scope set as is. The recoil is actually not unpleasant-downright mild in the 300 gr and "stiff" but not at all painful with the 405 lead. As previously stated, there are a few favorite powders of reloaders in the 45-70 but I found that 3031 worked well and just stopped there. I love to experiment with other calibers just to see what I can wring out but the 45-70 is not the gun I go to for 600 yard shots so I just found a loading that works well and stayed there. Enjoy the new gun and hobby. Lots to learn about the reloading addiction if you are so inclined. Just my ramblings, Gary | |||
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Swordfish, I've tried numerous powders, load densities and bullets in my guide gun. However, I, like many others have one go to load in my 45-70's. It is 53 gr. of IMR 3031 over 400 grain Speer flat points. Works for me GWB  | |||
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I worked my way up to,
Thanks all for the info. Had a great time at the range and now ready to drop a hog this weekend with it. Thanks, Swordfish | |||
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If you want to venture out into some different powders these are two to consider that you might be using in other calibers. Varget with a 350 grain cast for around 1400fps and H322 for a 405 grain cast at around 1900fps. That really gives you both ends of the spectrum for the 45-70; mild with the 350g and wild with the 405g. A lot of buffalo were shot with the 405g at low speeds!!!!!! | |||
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IMR 3031 is the only powder I use in my 45/70. With the 405gr jacketed bullet you can start with 38.5gr for @1300fps [Lyman load]. Then work your way up to the 53gr load stopping at the recoil power level you like. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Hunted hogs with the reloads this weekend. Great results. 130#'er between the eyes coming at me, bang-flop. 80#'er through the lungs at 75 yds. clean through. Tracked it for 35 yds. Minimal blood trail. I think I need to go down to a 300gn HP. for hogs, to expend more energy in the body. Both bullets went clean through. The end result was good though. It was very satisfying to hunt my own reloads. Thanks for the info guys. I'll post some pics when I download them off the camera. | |||
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I've been using 3031 since the '60s in the 45-70, with great results. Have used loads heavier than mentioned but my '86 has had a Win 71 breechbolt fitted, with the solid breech face for increased pressure instead of the original split breech. As mentioned, the heavy 3031 loads can be unpleasant but they strike like the hammer of Thor! You will note plenty of unburned powder after firing, don't worry, that's normal with 3031. I use a very heavy crimp which seems to help with accuracy as well as leaving fewer unburned particles. Don't overlook the Lyman 457125 Government bullet at 500-535 gr weight. Cast of pure lead or a 50-50 mixture of lead/wheel weights, it will shoot through almost any animnal on this continent and leave a hole the size of a half-dollar all the way through. My friend Red Bagby has killed 62 deer with 63 shots and none ran off even 10 yds. NONE! BTW the extra shot was fired by his brother, there were 2 deer and his brother shot the wrong one. ReLoader 7 is another splendid powder for the 45-70 and Lee makes moulds for some good-looking large-meplat bullets. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Would you expand on your experience with the RL-7 in the 45-70? | |||
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I don't believe that the 45/70 was originally designed for the 400/405 grain bullets, was it? I find that the 400 grain bullets increase recoil dramatically over the 300 and 350 varieties. Of course, this could be because I have a Ruger #1 and max loads are pretty brutal. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter, the 45-70 was originally designed and loaded with a heavy ~525-gr bullet, later a carbine load was developed with the lighter 405-gr bullet. The lightweight 300-350 gr bullets were a still-later sporting development. TEANCUM, my experience with Re 7 is so little that I really can't give any authoritative comments except to say that, so far at least, my accuracy and velocity appear to be about the same as with 3031. IOW quite good, and several friends also report the same. I also get good results with both 3031 and Re7 in the 38-55. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Imr-30-31 and reloader 7 are the only two powders I use in 45/70. they are accurate and fill the case well. work up your loads from minimum and be happy. | |||
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Hornady's manuals in past editions listed loads for RE7. I don't know about the current manual because I don't have one. RE7's burning rate is close to IMR 4198 if that is of any help. | |||
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End result of: 53 grains of IMR 3031 with the 405 grain bullet. The bottom two  130# center & 80# bottom | |||
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Thanks for the heads up. | |||
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