I know that the 7mm08 is a long ways from a heavy recoiling caliber, but not if you weigh 50 lbs. like my nephew. My BIL just bought a new barrel for his T/C and was wanting me to load up some light loads for my nephew to try out. I'm wondering where a good place to start would be? I've never loaded at below min's before, but I assume a faster burning powder is in order? What about Trail boss or are fillers needed in regular powders? Thanks in advance.

First

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Then

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

You nephew will benefit from a shorter stock and a better recoil pad. The thumbhole stocks look like they'd be easier to shorten. Good job starting the boy out with pleasant loads.

Trailboss has a published load: http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf It does work well in a 30-06.

daniel77: I have had good results using IMR's SR4759 for reduced-recoil loads with many 308-based cartridges, including the 7mm-08. IMR's printed loading manuals lists loads for SR4759, although the latest web data center (through Hodgdon's site) no longer does:

http://www.imrpowder.com/pdf/IMR_rifle.pdf

My experience has been that SR4759 seems to work best with lighter-weight bullets - 120 and 130 grain Speers with the 7mm-08. Trying to use it with heavier bullets for a given cartridge has given me some high pressure signs. Accuracy is very good and recoil is noticeably reduced.

As an aside, Hodgdon's youth loads using H4895 never worked well for me.

quote:

Originally posted by pagris:
As an aside, Hodgdon's youth loads using H4895 never worked well for me.

What problems did you encounter?

Sierra used to offer a 130 grain "single shot pistol" bullet....it had a thin jacket, and expanded well even at slower speeds. It was designed for use in the Contender, in calibers like the 7X30 Watters.

It worked very well for my Daughters first few deer....but I don't remeber the powder I was using.

If you ask around, you may still be able to find some of the Sierras, I may even have a box of two.

I assume we are grown ups here and no need
to suger coat it. STUPID giving a fifty
pound kid a 7mm-08 to shoot. STUPID!
But if you want to lighten recoil regardless
of shooter than shoot the lightest bullets
you can find which are 100 gr. Sierra and
Speer I think. Then focus on the light
gunpowders to go with them.
Get the kid a DAISY BB gun like any sensible
folk would do. wait a few years and then
pellet gun and then a 22 rimfire. GEEZE
In fact probably better to invest in some
of the new airsoft guns that shoot plastic
BBs indoors.
Tell your friend what he ought to do and
dont reload anything for the kid.

Each of my three children had their own cricket when they were 6 or 7. My wife and I had them lined up across 3 benches at the range. Truth be told, I bought them each one when they were 2, just didn't let them shoot until later. The two boys were shooting my AR when they were 11. Now they've just turned 13 and I've got one that is shooting competitively with 22LR and likes to plink with my 30-06 with reduced loads. Why wouldn't you teach children the safe way to use fire arms before they start watching movies that show them exactly the wrong way to shoot?

Working with one lately,
I was working on light loads and accuracy..

I used about all bullet weights available in 7mm for testing from 139 grains and under..

I recommend based on those results, working with charge weights from 25 up to 30 grains with RL 7, IMR 4198 and H 4198, H 322

For SR 4759, I recommend using from 20 to 25 grains with any bullet weight under 140 grains..

all proved very accurate in my 7.08 barrel, which was from ER Shaw on a Savage action..

Remington solved the problem for you with their "Managed Recoil" loadings. Honestly, shooting their 7-08 Managed Recoil loading utilizing the 140 grain Core-Locts is akin to a 223!! And they have sufficient knockdown to take deer out to 200+ yards without problems. The Managed Recoil loads from Remington are pretty neat!! GHD

Charlie,

those managed recoil loads are just using IMR 4198 powder, or a burn rate similar..

I have dissected a few and then duplicated them, and the chronograph verified the same MV and the targets were getting the same point of impact..

that is what I was duplicating on the loads I posted above...

for anyone who utilizes them, the 139 grain Hornady does open up better than the 140 grain corelokt at those lower speeds... however both will get the job done...

quote:

Originally posted by preventec47:
I assume we are grown ups here and no need
to suger coat it. STUPID giving a fifty
pound kid a 7mm-08 to shoot. STUPID!
But if you want to lighten recoil regardless
of shooter than shoot the lightest bullets
you can find which are 100 gr. Sierra and
Speer I think. Then focus on the light
gunpowders to go with them.
Get the kid a DAISY BB gun like any sensible
folk would do. wait a few years and then
pellet gun and then a 22 rimfire. GEEZE
In fact probably better to invest in some
of the new airsoft guns that shoot plastic
BBs indoors.
Tell your friend what he ought to do and
dont reload anything for the kid.

When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. Thanks so much for the constructive criticism. I appreciate you answering my question about a specific kind of powder to use in a specific situation with "You're a dumbass". That was very helpful. And I had no idea that lower weight bullets offered less resistance than heavier ones. I guess those physics classes were a waste of time in my case. Also, I'm not sure what my nephew weighs to the ounce (didn't realize I'd be taken quite so literally), but the take home message is not enough to handle a fully recoiling deer rifle just yet, hence the want of a lower recoil load. He may well have pulled a trigger more times than you have though, and I don't fault my brother in law in the least for wanting to help the boy step up a notch. At no time did I mention or infer that he hasn't been brought up through the ranks of guns and learned the correct way of doing things. It is specifically to keep his good habits and training in line that we don't want to put a cannon on his shoulder and knock the crap out of him. Thanks again for having your heart in the right place and trying to school me. Glad that we are all adults here.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

Originally posted by pagris:
As an aside, Hodgdon's youth loads using H4895 never worked well for me.

What problems did you encounter?

Simply accuracy issues - Poor groupings with both the 7mm-08 and a 243.

That's good information to know about H4895 reduced loads. I have not tried it.

Daniel, I am impressed with your control. I am not certain I would have been as diplomatic.

quote:

Originally posted by Cliff Lyle:
That's good information to know about H4895 reduced loads. I have not tried it.

Daniel, I am impressed with your control. I am not certain I would have been as diplomatic.

I have not had ANY consistent luck with H 4895..

after reading the new guy's response to Daniel's request, I have to second Cliff Lyle's analysis of Daniel's restraint and self control..

I normally welcome new forum members.. but with a response like that, makes me wonder if he is an old forum member trying to pass off a new identity, as people got tired of his old personality being like that..

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. It goes without saying that I always want to reload with the safest results possible, but triple that when a kid will be firing off one of my loads. I've got zero experience with below min recommended stuff, so thanks a bunch for the links and suggestions.

My dad's 7mm08 likes h4895, but mine does not. In a couple of the manuals I have, 4895 is said to be the most accurate powder tested, but it sure isn't the one that most people recommend most often, for regular loads anyway....

Both IMR & H 4895 work well in my 7/08s, but I have only used them in that cartridge with full power loads.

What I might try is about 16-17 grains of IMR 4759. I use 17-to-19 gains in my various .30-06s with 175 gr. bullets and get about 1,700 fps and very good accuracy combined with very little recoil....like about almost none.

I suspect with 139 grain bullets about 17 grains would do very well, but I'd start at 15 or 16 grains and work up...stopping when I got the accuracy I wanted. And, at first I'd look down the bore after every shot to make sure the bullets were clearing the bore.

Good luck. Sounds like a worthwhile endeavor to me.

P.S.: my dad got me my first centerfire rifle when I was 9 years old...a 6.5x53 Dutch Mannlicher Carbine with a steel buttplate, using 160 grain bullets at full power. I don't know what I weighed back then, but I weighed 137 pounds (and was 6'-3" tall, a really thin beanpole) when I got out of the Army in my early 20s. I was 9 about seven decades ago and I am still a shooter, so it didn't harm me or my enthusiasm too much.

I use the HDY 139gr SST in my 700 MTN rifle. I worked up an accurate load using IMR 4064. I started with the minimum load in the HDY manual & went through the range up to the listed max. I did not notice the recoil from the bench until I was in the upper end of the scale. So, I would say the last 25% of the listed load was when the recoil bacame noticeable.
The load range listed in the 6th edition HDY manual for IMR 4064 & a 139gr bullet is 34.1gr-41.1gr.

I recommend following Hornady's youth load guidelines; however I have found that it is extremely important that the little ones have very good ear protection before they shoot. My nephew's first shot was dead center bullseye, but his second through 5th were all over the place. I thought it was the recoil, but quickly realized it was the muzzle blast that was causing him to flinch. Got good ear stuff on his head and he went back to bullseye.
Moosie

The trailboss data looks realy cool.....however the stuff cost somewhere around 40/50% more than conventional powder.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The trailboss data looks realy cool.....however the stuff cost somewhere around 40/50% more than conventional powder.

Shouldn't be that much difference. 5lbs of trailboss at powdervalleyinc is $17.10/lb and 8 pounds of H4895 is $16.94/lb. Then if you compare the charge weights of H4895 in the youth loads at 35.5 grains=8.59 cents per round vs 13.5 grains of trailboss = 3.30 cents per round. Trailboss ends up being 2-1/2 times cheaper.

***edit
Even if you just buy the one pound bottle size (9 oz for trailboss) the prices per round of H4895 is 9.84 cents/rnd and TB is 3.77 cents/rnd, still 2-1/2 times cheaper.

Your right TripletDad.
I just re-did the math. I looked at it yesterday at Cabelas St. Louis. It was $16 for a 10 ounce jug and thats about the same as everthing else ounce per ounce

I like the idea of the trail boss powder. My only question, is it dirty to shoot?

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
I like the idea of the trail boss powder. My only question, is it dirty to shoot?

No, I don't think so. Just looked down the bore of my m1903 that's had around a hundred rounds down it since the last time I cleaned it and there are no large unburned flakes in there. But it's not spotless either.

The easiest part of loading for recoil reduction is bullet weight, in the 7mm That means 120gr bullets.

The other part is subjective, perception....

Muzzle blast.

And the way to reduce that is tend towards the faster powders that produce less fuss and muss at the buisness end of the tube.

Next part is a soft recoil pad to reduce the feel of recoil

Last part is actually reducing muzzle velocity, but if
you do the other parts right there is little real need for any major reduction.

The other thing to remember about making reduced recoil loads for a young shooter is keep "raising the training wheels" to do this get them to the range to shoot a lot, but keep "uping" the loads for them.

So in the end the game you should be playing is less about reducing recoil, and by definition velocity and energy, and more about aclimatizing them to the recoil.

AD

I started both my boys with a 7mm-o8.

Sierra 120 and 38 Grains of Varget.

Mild to shoot, accurate and knocks deer dead.