Hi All, I have come up with a jug of surplus gunpowder, it is called RVO-65, the small loading data sheet gives me something to go by. It seems to be slower than H4831 and maybe the speed of Win785. It seems to be a ball powder, and I am sure it is a pull down, I want to load 223 and 243WSSM.
I would be much great full for any and all help.
Thanks
ACE

H4831 and H4831SC are powders for large-case magnums. I shoot SC in my 300WSM. I'm going to guess the powder you have is not suitable for the small case of the .223Remington. Win748 is a good powder for small-case rounds like the .223. I don't know, but I'm going to guess the higher numbers of Winchester powders are indicators of its speed.

Here's what I would do: Fill a .223 case to the shoulder with your mystery powder and weigh the charge. If it seems to be in the range that sounds right (about 20-22 grains), I'd load a few and shoot them, looking for pressure signs. After you shoot the first one, look down the bore for unburned specks. If you see any, the powder is probably too slow. The WSSM may yield different results. I know nothing about that cartridge, so I'll offer no opinion. It just seems to me that the small bullets accelerate much faster than big bullets, so a fast-burning powder is an absolute necessity to get the bullet moving and burn all the powder. Let's hear what others have to say...

yeah and if that doesn't work try mixing a little blasto #2 in with it

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Fill a .223 case to the shoulder with your mystery powder and weigh the charge. If it seems to be in the range that sounds right (about 20-22 grains), I'd load a few and shoot them, looking for pressure signs. After you shoot the first one, look down the bore for unburned specks. If you see any, the powder is probably too slow. The WSSM may yield different results. I know nothing about that cartridge, so I'll offer no opinion. It just seems to me that the small bullets accelerate much faster than big bullets, so a fast-burning powder is an absolute necessity to get the bullet moving and burn all the powder. Let's hear what others have to say...

You gotta be kidding!!!

There's a reason why Lions eat some of their young.

Butchloc: Where can I get some of that Blasto#2, I am laughing so hard I hardly can't type this, LOL!

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Fill a .223 case to the shoulder with your mystery powder and weigh the charge. If it seems to be in the range that sounds right (about 20-22 grains), I'd load a few and shoot them, looking for pressure signs. After you shoot the first one, look down the bore for unburned specks. If you see any, the powder is probably too slow. The WSSM may yield different results. I know nothing about that cartridge, so I'll offer no opinion. It just seems to me that the small bullets accelerate much faster than big bullets, so a fast-burning powder is an absolute necessity to get the bullet moving and burn all the powder. Let's hear what others have to say...

You gotta be kidding!!!

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Ace Lungger:
Hi All, I have come up with a jug of surplus gunpowder, it is called RVO-65, the small loading data sheet gives me something to go by. It seems to be slower than H4831 and maybe the speed of Win785. It seems to be a ball powder, and I am sure it is a pull down, I want to load 223 and 243WSSM.
I would be much great full for any and all help.
Thanks
ACE

My best advice.
1. Take it to the hazardous waste disposal facility.
2. Go to your local Gun Shop and purchase some powder that "is" in the reloading manuals.

No insult intended.

What loads are listed on the sheet?

http://www.castboolits.gunload...&p=953952#post953952

Found this, might help. It's not a .223 Remington powder. I wouldn't use the load to the shoulder method, sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

quote:

Sam's signature:

A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work

Not if you follow homebrewer's advice!

Maybe homebrewer should stick to beer recipes instead.

I was gonna PM you for a gluten-free homebrew recipe til I saw that homebrewer!

Disclaimer:
(The preceeding admonishment was in jest and in no way reflects the personality of the poster, rcamuglia. Please feel free to search rcamuglia's posts for verification of intentional humor to prove his point and to make himself laugh his a$$ off)

You think that's funny, huh? Well, try this one on for size: I had to dump maybe five or six hundred rounds loaded with four or five different powders because the shoulder was in the wrong place and the bolt wouldn't close. I dumped all that powder into a half-gallon jug and shook the hell out of it. I knew which powder the majority of it was. So I measured out 23.3 grains of it and loaded up ten rounds. I shot it at the range last Sunday. I was thinking before I fired the first one "This shit is either gonna punch out the primers, spit gas in my face or if I'm lucky, might hit that washing machine box at 50 yards." Turns out that mystery shit printed them little bastards inside a one-inch circle at 100 yards out of my 16-inch AR. And I can't shoot worth a damn, even with a machine rest up front and a 13B out back. So I loaded up another ten at 23.5 grains and I'll let fly with them tomorrow. I'll let you know how it went. If it prints well, I'll load up a boatload of 'em and shoot 'em. I don't shy away from stuff like this. I knew with about how much powder I could start. I checked for pressure signs. I saw none. So now I'm going to push the envelope a bit. 23.5 grains might be too much. I'll know when I rip the first one out tomorrow if it is. If it is, it's back to 23.3, or maybe even down to twenty-three. The stuff is primarily just blastin' ammo. It was never intended to be sub-MOA target ammo, even though it turned out that way. One thing I will do this time around is to include a label with it so I know what it is if I ever have to pull it apart. But now they all pass muster through my case comparator, so that instance will most likely never obtain.

Cut and pasted from the Predator Masters website in a thread asking the same question...

"River Valley Ordinance pretty much folded when the man running it died. There is a website, but I have not received any replies to my email inquiries regarding the Jug of powder I have from them. I think it was WC852 and have been using it with loading data for that. Wish I could help more. I responded mainly to give the full name of the company in case that helped.

Another option is to call Jeff Bartlett or Pat Macdonald and ask them if they know anything about the powder. I have called Jeff before and he was quite helpful. They both have websites for surplus powder etc."

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
You think that's funny, huh? Well, try this one on for size: I had to dump maybe five or six hundred rounds loaded with four or five different powders because the shoulder was in the wrong place and the bolt wouldn't close. I dumped all that powder into a half-gallon jug and shook the hell out of it. I knew which powder the majority of it was. So I measured out 23.3 grains of it and loaded up ten rounds. I shot it at the range last Sunday. I was thinking before I fired the first one "This shit is either gonna punch out the primers, spit gas in my face or if I'm lucky, might hit that washing machine box at 50 yards." Turns out that mystery shit printed them little bastards inside a one-inch circle at 100 yards out of my 16-inch AR. And I can't shoot worth a damn, even with a machine rest up front and a 13B out back. So I loaded up another ten at 23.5 grains and I'll let fly with them tomorrow. I'll let you know how it went. If it prints well, I'll load up a boatload of 'em and shoot 'em. I don't shy away from stuff like this. I knew with about how much powder I could start. I checked for pressure signs. I saw none. So now I'm going to push the envelope a bit. 23.5 grains might be too much. I'll know when I rip the first one out tomorrow if it is. If it is, it's back to 23.3, or maybe even down to twenty-three. The stuff is primarily just blastin' ammo. It was never intended to be sub-MOA target ammo, even though it turned out that way. One thing I will do this time around is to include a label with it so I know what it is if I ever have to pull it apart. But now they all pass muster through my case comparator, so that instance will most likely never obtain.

If I was a moderator here, I'd ban you from the reloading forum. This post is insane, uninformed and ignorant of any reloading safety. It's just plain dumb.

Ace, I load mostly surplus and other non-canister powders. Although I am not familiar with Rvo-65, if as suggested on several websites it's repackaged Wc852 I can offer you some insite.

Every lot of surplus powder is different. Sometimes they become surplus because they are "out of spec" and rejected. This is especially true with WC852. Burn rates on this powder vary between H414 and H450. I've had good results with this power in both the .270 Winchester, and .338 Win Mag. I started with H414 data, and worked up to a midrange+ H450 listing in both rifles.

As you can see from the above example, when working with a new surplus power its best to start well on the low side, more so then you would with a standard canister power and work up. I also recommend starting with a light for caliber bullet. This is just one more way you can build in a margin a safety as you build your knowledge of the powder. As I'm sure you can imagine a chronograph is crutial in building your powder profile. If you don't have a chronograph, I'd suggest not even trying the powder. Loading surplus powders without a chronograph is just plain shooting in the dark.

Although I do not approve of homebrew's cavaliar attitude toward surpluss powders, there is a significant pearl of wisdom in what he said. A .223 will perform safely with a fast burning, or slow burning powder. Topped with a 40gr (i.e. light for caliber) bullet, Homebrews suggested load of 22gr would be under 61k psi for everything up to WC820 (surplus .30 carbine powder, which is a great powder for the .44 Mag) If the 22 grain charge pushed the 40gr bullet out at 3400 fps, you would know you had something close to WC820 (H110 data is suggested for use) If on the other hand, it came out around 2200 fps, you would know it's much closer to the WC852/H4831 range.

The one risk with the above strategy is that you could be sitting on a keg .38 special pulldown, which is about like HS-6....22 gr of Hs-6 in a .223, might be a very bad thing.

Bottom line is proceed carefully with the best information you have avaliable. When in doubt start lower, and if you are still in doubt, just send the powder to me. I'm sure I have a rifle that will like it.

Homebrewer, no disrespect intended but if you spent as much time reloading as posting you wouldn't still be playing with that batch of .223 you didn't size right.

I'd trade the powder to someone who could use the load data supplied with the powder.

quote:

Originally posted by Sam:

Homebrewer, no disrespect intended but if you spent as much time reloading as posting you wouldn't still be playing with that batch of .223 you didn't size right.

I hear you, my reloadin' brutha. I like to reload-- if the brass doesn't need a ton of work before I can actually start preparing it to reload it. When the cases are already primed as these many hundreds were, special procedures apply. I cannot get the primers wet with cooking-spray lube, so each primer has to be dobbed with nail polish. That means a tool has to be made to set them upright for dobbing and drying. I did that with a piece of 3/4-inch plywood and 138 2.5-inch drywall screws. I do not own a drill press. I had to use a friend's. That took time for our two schedules to come together. I had to have a method of getting the lube off the brass. I do not have a heavy-duty sewing machine. I had the mother of another friend sew a heavy terrycloth bath towel into a sack, leaving a short section of one corner unsewn so I could put the brass in, roll it around like I was kneading bread dough and get it out. The towel had to be sent off to his mom's house, I had to wait for her to sew it and only when I got it back, could I advance the process. I also had to go to work, deal with being tired, deal with other things that need to be done in my small and miserable life, et cetera. Now that I have all or almost all of the offending brass done (I think I have less than a hundred to go in ammo boxes hidden here, there and everywhere in my billeting), I can go ahead with the whole sordid thing. Then there is the question of ambition and motivation. I don't shoot much in this political climate. I have (estimating) about 7,000 sized .223 cases on hand. A skosh more than half of that total are primed and await just the powder and bullet. A few hundred more needing the squeeze can wait their turn through the sizing die. If I ever do get them loaded, I'll use the mystery powder and label them.

I used to just blast away willy-nilly, but I've become much more reserved on the trigger since November 2006. And these days you can't find bullets or powder or primers to replace what you use. I shoot very little, which means I am in no hurry to reload. I have a box of .22LR ammo that weighs 36 pounds. I don't even shoot that. I go to my club's range on Sundays, and not every Sunday. It's five miles away, and that's a long way to drive to shoot around here. I might shoot ten rounds in two hours, and not because there's no open bench. We had a whopper of an attendance last week at eleven members total during the entire time the range was open from 0700 to 1030. When nobody was there still shooting, the RSO closed it up and went home himself. It got too hot. We have four solid, concrete, ambidextrous benches. No one ever needs to wait.

I enjoy posting on this website. I love the immediate feedback, especially as it comes at me in the PF. There are times I will spend long hours here and there on this website. I live in Nevada, a very wide-open-spaces type of place. I can go and shoot anytime I want just about anywhere I want. When you have that type of freedom to do it, you don't do it much. It's like a New Yorker never going to the Met or the Guggenheim because he can do so at any time.

Geez.....

Houston, we have a problem..........

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Geez.....

Houston, we have a problem..........

None here.

Sounds like a nice range. I'm running about 100 rounds a month. 30 miles to the range here, two high power matches a month. I've been loading as I go so I only have about 100 rounds on hand. I spend too much time online myslef.

Hi Fellas,
thanks to all for the replies. I have been reloading big time for over 35 years, I would never suggest mixing powders toghter, but Home brew is not the only person that has done that.
When reloading a person should NEVER throw caution to the wind!!! I have a few zip lock bags that have the UNKNOWN powders in them, and I will never use that powder for reloading.
There has been some posters that voiced banning someone from posting, I think that they should of voiced there concerns for the poster but don't mad mouth someone from sharing there do's and don'ts. There are tons of folks that reload and there are those that don't take enough cauitions in there loading. Just because one person does something out on a limb doesn't mean that anyone else needs to.
If you reload, you need to use your best judgement along with reloading maunals, I have 4 different maunals and none of them agree excatly on any such load.
I am very sorry that this post has caused hard felling between members.
ACE

quote:

I am very sorry that this post has caused hard felling between members.

It's not your fault Ace, there are just too many people on this forum that don't know how to play nice.

As for the rest of us, I hope we were able to help.

The Data on the bottle is a good match for WC860. WC860 is generally about 8% slower then H870. The general guidelines for WC860 are starting with H870 data and work up.

No problem, Ace. I take no umbrage against anyone for what they say to me in this Forum or in any other, for that matter. If I feel slighted (never happens, anyway), I put that person on Ignore and keep on keepin' on.

I took my ammo out today but got there so late, the RSO was packin' up. I just popped off two to look for pressure signs. The primers look just fine, the necks did not split and the recoil of my little Colt carbine felt "right" in my hands. I'd say I have a good load for burnin' off that powder.

Here is a small picture of my range, Sam. The white spot on the hillside (to the left) is the 600-yard gong. I have put that spot in the picture to make it visible. No one shoots at the gong because no one wants to drive out there to look at their target. The thing is 30 inches in diameter, so hitting it is not a problem for an accurate rifle. Pistol benches on the left, skeet range to the far right. Outhouse in the center right. The prone area is to the far right along the firin' line. Nobody ever shoots there because we don't like to lay in the dirt. Membership in our club is a whopping $30 a year for singles and an outrageous $35 a year for the whole family. It hardly ever rains here, so it's open just about every Sunday except for when the winter weather makes it muddy. And it don't snow here too much...

Homebrew, You have a nice range!! I wished i had something like that here. I hope that most of us here are doing this hooby for fun. Other than 223 I havn't bought over 10 boxs of ammo since 1973.Back when I bought my 223 ammo it was cheaper to buy than you could ever reload it. I look back at the pioneers of this sport that did the wild catting and i will allways rember the saftey steps they took.
Antelope, thank you for your posts!! I have had so much hassel in my life the last 10 years that I know for fact, that life is to short to get upset over little things. Back in the 80's I got into Skeet shooting big time, we had a AWESOME Skeet and trap field, I was shooting 400 rounds of practice everyweek and shooting comp. once a month of 400 targets. Back then it was cheap to load shot gun but shooting that much and only making $300.00 a week it was a struggle! I would go out to the range on Monday eve. and pick up used wads if they didn't have a wing shot off they were just fine for practice rounds.
Thank to all for the help.
ACE

Homebrewer:

That range wouldn't happen to be in Morongo Valley, would it. Looks like the range I used to drive by all the time on my trips from 29 Palms to Indio and Palm Springs.

Regards

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Homebrewer:

That range wouldn't happen to be in Morongo Valley, would it. Looks like the range I used to drive by all the time on my trips from 29 Palms to Indio and Palm Springs.

Regards

Jerry

Nope. Nevada. If you look very closely, you can see AR-15s on a few of those benches...

Good One, LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Here's what I would do: Fill a .223 case to the shoulder with your mystery powder and weigh the charge. If it seems to be in the range that sounds right (about 20-22 grains), I'd load a few and shoot them, looking for pressure signs. After you shoot the first one, look down the bore for unburned specks. If you see any, the powder is probably too slow. The WSSM may yield different results. I know nothing about that cartridge, so I'll offer no opinion. It just seems to me that the small bullets accelerate much faster than big bullets, so a fast-burning powder is an absolute necessity to get the bullet moving and burn all the powder. Let's hear what others have to say...

Long l-o-n-g ago, I happened to mention HomeBrewer was "a bit reckless" with his Reloading techniques. Perhaps I should not have mentioned that way back then.

I'd sure hate to be thought of as being negative about another Board Member's Reloading Methods.

You know you can't win HC!

Just imagine if you heaped mounds of praise on homebrewer for mixing all those different powders together then loading them and shooting them like he did.

You'd be accused of wishing "harm" to him

What about duplex or triplex loads?
While I have not done anything like this before. Something like this might come in handy.

I happen to know that a large part of my "mystery powder" is AA 2200 DP, with a bit of AA 2230 thrown in, some BL-C(2), some H-414 and some WC846, which is said to burn like BL-C(2). I just loaded the brass to 2200 charges and went head on with it. It shoots just fine. I'm going to slap it with the chrono one of these days just for grins...

Hi All,
I don't think that HB would have loaded that ammo if he didn't have a good idea of what the powder was he was dealing with. The mention of Duplex loads usualy deals with B.P long range shooting, and the difference there is you are using a very controlled loading.putting your smokeless powder in first then you BP and maybe a wad and then compressing the charge then seating the bullet. When doing that you are keeping the different powders seperated, not mixing. The only life that HB was putting in danger was his own. I think that most of us that have posted have years of reloading, and i would hope that anyone reading these would know that you have to use caution when reloading and if a person just starting would research things out before doing anything.
I called Jeff Bartlett yesterday, and that man knows his stuff, he is also a very caring person and willing to help you out if he can.
He knew the owner of RVO very well, and he explained all about the different powders that they sold, the owner past away several years ago and his wife tried to run the buiness for awhile, it is no longer in buiness.
Thanks to all that have posted.
ACE

This sounds like an excellent excuse to buy a 300 Weatherby and a box of 180's.

The man is right it takes a fast powder to catch up and stay with a light bullet.
What is there to say??
Good luck!

homebrewer, Is that range in Carson City?

quote:

Originally posted by nvmichael:

homebrewer, Is that range in Carson City?

Nope. The Carson City range is 20 concrete benches and maybe fifty feet of prone area. That range is 300 yards long. There is a pistol range maybe two hundred feet to the right of the rifle range in Carson. The pistol range is 50 yards.

Speaking of the Carson range, I was there today at 1600. There was NO ONE THERE. The pistol range had two cars parked in front of it. I came from the Shenandoah Valley of Northern Virginia. There is no place to shoot there because all the land has been owned by someone else for 300 years, and they don't want you or your ugly black rifle on it. There is Clark Brothers down south of Warrenton on 17, but it's only a hundred yards and you have to shoot their ammo or reloads made up from their components. People from as far away as Baltimore (and even more north) come there to shoot. They line up as if buying tickets to a movie. It's very regimented. Out here, there is so much wide open, BLM land. I can scope out a place, check for proximity of houses and roads, set up and let fly. Rural Nevada is like Heaven for shooters. I never want to leave.

This is the Carson range. I took this picture sometime in March or April, 2010:



No membership fees, no admission fees, no range officers, no gates, open 365 days a year, shoot until it gets dark. There is a big "Range Rules" placard there (the white square in the center of the canopy) that states the range closes at dark, but I have heard people out there shooting at midnight. Much less wind then, you know. When you want to break for targets, you just call it and everybody stops shooting. A very mellow, laid-back place. Machine guns are OK. Just bring your paper. There are shotgun pits even farther to the right. I think there are three of them. I never use them. They get a ton of workout on the weekends when people come out to shoot clay pigeons and close-range targets with handguns in 'em. We get a lot of vehicles with Kalifonia plates there-- especially on the weekends.

Located at Lat 39.179747° x Lon -119.681326°

homebrewer
Wheres the range at?
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by nvmichael:

homebrewer,
Where's the range? Thanks.

You mean my club range? You have to be a member to go there, so it wouldn't help to tell you. It's about a half-hour east of Reno. You'd be better off going to the big one up Pyramid Highway or out to Derby Dam (Exit 36 on I-80). Lots of people from Reno/Sparks shoot out there. It's BLM land, so no restrictions to shooting on it.

The Carson range is out 50 East, past Deer Run Road. Turn right onto Flint Drive, then a right onto Rifle Range Road. Rifle Range Road is maybe a quarter-mile from 50. Once on it, go slow because it's very curvy. There is a hell of a curve just before you get to the range. It's a downhill hairpin, so BE CAREFUL. Once past that curve, it's just a few seconds to the range itself. Best time to go there is during the week because there is usually no one there beyond maybe one or two shooters. Even if you go on a weekend, you won't have to wait much-- if at all. You'll probably find lots of brass there, too. There is man who comes twice a day on a red ATV and picks it up. He then resells it. If you get there before he does, you can pick up a bunch of .223, .308 and various handgun brass at the pistol range. No one will keep you from doing it...