I've been experimenting with cleaning cases with a cloth and some Flitz. I was of the view that Flitz was safe for case cleaning but it smells like there is ammonia in there somewhere and I've heard this can be dangerous to use on cases. Would anyone care to comment or share their experiences? The few cases I've experimented on certainly come up really shiny in just a few spins so it does a great job in that respect. Just trying to keep my nice Lapua cases in good condition.

I use Flitz all the time. When I first started using it I did a search for ingredients and could not find anywhere that said it had ammonia.

Here it says it does not contain ammonia

Works good for me

Do you know what the abrasive grit is in Flitz?
I know the ad says it has no abrasive ingredients, but it must have some to do any polishing?? How would it polish steel and brass with no abrasive, even someting like 2000 grit, or finer?
I know it is finer than Happitsch Simichrome, but I really don't know the exact grit size with either of them. I use them as final polish of knife blades, with Flitz being the last of the two.

The Flitz I have got came in a tube and is a sort of paste rather than a liquid which is what the stuff in the link looks like. It does smell like there is ammonia in it somewhere, does the liquid smell the same?

quote:

Originally posted by caorach:
The Flitz I have got came in a tube and is a sort of paste rather than a liquid which is what the stuff in the link looks like. It does smell like there is ammonia in it somewhere, does the liquid smell the same?

That's what I have also, the Flitz in a tube, and it's a paste.
Maybe there are different kinds of Flitz, I don't know???

It comes in several sizes of bottles. A bit pricy but really good stuff. I use it like woods does. Hardly ever use the tumbler anymore...just chuck it into a lee universal holder and a drill.
I'll also sometimes take a patch with a light oil coat and dab a little flitz into it for bore cleaning and exterior metal polishing on bluing. You can really polish up the bluing on some guns with this stuff.

I use Nevr-Dull when loading at the range.

Material Safety Data Sheet

To me it does not smell like ammonia

Looks like you hit golddust woods, unfortunately the data sheet for the paste says 25% ammonia.

http://flitzusa.com/msds/MSDS%...20Paste%20Polish.pdf

So it looks like it is important which version of flitz you use and as I can only get the paste version it looks like I can only get it with ammonia. That is a bummer as it don't half get those cases clean. Maybe I would risk using it for the occasional clean.

There are a lot of different kinds of Flitz. Google their website and you can see. They make one specifically for case tumbling, I imagine it would work with Woods' method just fine.

I use it for several applications, from polishing Corian countertops to tumbling brass.

Kraky, I am interested in your non-tumbling solution to case cleaning but wonder if there's something you can use to spin your case in to negate the effect of ammonia before finishing cleaning.

Don Boyd

quote:

Originally posted by caorach:
Looks like you hit golddust woods, unfortunately the data sheet for the paste says 25% ammonia.

http://flitzusa.com/msds/MSDS%...20Paste%20Polish.pdf

So it looks like it is important which version of flitz you use and as I can only get the paste version it looks like I can only get it with ammonia. That is a bummer as it don't half get those cases clean. Maybe I would risk using it for the occasional clean.

Well I didn't expect you to read it!!!

Just seeing if anyone is paying attention. The amount of ammonia is so small (what is 25% of .8%.......like .2%) that I don't think it would matter.

To be fair woods you sent the link to a sheet for a different version of flitz, the version you linked to had no ammonia.

I'm inclined to side with you that such a small amount can not possibly do much in the way of damage. Is there anyone here who has used an ammonia based cleaner long term on their cases with no ill effects?

I suspect that at worst the ammonia in the flitz has a minor effect on the very surface of the case and that I would shoot my cases out long before the ammonia would become a factor in their failure. Even so it would be nice to know.

My big 8.5 oz bottle of flitz(probably a 6 yr supply) says contains no ammonia.
Another product I've used is an Eagle One product called "Nevr-Dull wadding polish". It's some thing I picked up at walmart to polish the tunnel of my snomobile. It is a 6 oz can with what looks to be woolly wads with a chemical in it. About $4.00. It works really nice...like flitz.
I just chuck the casing in my lee universal drill holder...put on a plastic food service glove on my shellholder hand....hit the spinning shell with a little cleaner...hit the shell with a rag....done. Looks "almost" as nice as Woods. And goes through sizing dies like butter. Probably takes 4-7 min's to do 20 cases. I still use the tumbler for bigger lots of cases.
Woods has posted in the past a very nice picture story of how he does it...and he preps his cases better than anyone I know.

Do brilliantly shiny cases shoot better?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Do brilliantly shiny cases shoot better?

I don't think so but my cases have been reloaded a few times now and are getting quite dirty. I was giving them a rub with IPA while getting the case lube off them and that was cleaning things up a little. However, all that muck is going into the chamber and so on and it only takes a few minutes to clean them. I only shoot a few rounds a month unless I go to the range so it isn't like I'm clearing hundreds of the things. Even with going to the range and so only I probably only shoot a few hundred rounds per year.

I was given some kind of cloth by an old-timer reloader a few years ago. The cloth has kind of a greasy feel to it. But wrap and spin a case in it about three revolutions, and it's shiny-bright. I have no idea what's in the cloth. I'd like to get another one...

I've found a few quick revolutions with a small piece of Scotch-brite cloth really cleans 'em up-- makes 'em look like gold. Puts tiny scratches in them, but what the hell. If that's too aggressive for you, try a small piece of a non-scratch Chore Girl...

What about Tarn-X on a small piece of cotton cloth?

Do not want to polish them too smooth and leave any kind of coating that will decrease the friction/gripping ability of the brass-----will increase bolt thrust.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Do brilliantly shiny cases shoot better?


I don't think so but my cases have been reloaded a few times now and are getting quite dirty. I was giving them a rub with IPA while getting the case lube off them and that was cleaning things up a little. However, all that muck is going into the chamber and so on and it only takes a few minutes to clean them. I only shoot a few rounds a month unless I go to the range so it isn't like I'm clearing hundreds of the things. Even with going to the range and so only I probably only shoot a few hundred rounds per year.

Sorry.

My point is that they don't. I simply wipe off all of my freshly loaded rounds with a rag to remove the die lubricant. The only reason I can see to polish is to ensure your cases are clean before the sizing operation for your die's sake. Handloading is time-consuming and the "polishing" is a step I choose to cut out because it doesn't add to accuracy.

Some people keep their cars really clean....some don't bother. It's the same for cleanliness of reloading....its just a matter of personal preference. I hate the carbon buildup outstide the case neck...not sure why it bothers me. As long as I'm going after that I might as well catch the whole case.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
The amount of ammonia is so small (what is 25% of .8%.......like .2%) that I don't think it would matter.

Back many many years ago, or "Once upon a time" for the people reading Woods posts, I was experiencing some very tiny Pinholes occasionally in the Case Walls of various cartridges. Figured it was just an occasional "Bad Case". The serious problem is that depending on when it occurs during the Firing Sequence, the Pinhole can allow a jet of flame to hit the Chamber Wall like a micro-cutting torch and blow a tiny Crater into it. You will know if it happens.

I was using Windex with Ammonia-D for a lot of general around the house cleaning as well as the windows. Watched the local news one night and they mentioned a house had Ka-Boomed itself while the people who lived there were at work. What was extremely interesting to me was the Arson Investigation Crew had narrowed it down to a Flexable (Bronze) Gas Line going into the stove. They said words to the effect that, "Ammonia Vapors in the air from cleaning products had created a Pinhole in the Flexable Gas Line, the Gas reached the Pilot Light and it Ka-Boomed the house.

Huuuuummmmm!

I was using an Electric stove at the time but knew some relatives who were using Gas. I called them and told them to have their Flexable Gas Lines switched to Stainless - immediately! And suggested they call the local Gas Company(LG&E) to see if they were aware of the problem. Plus to mention LG&E should call the N.C. town where the Ka-Boom occurred if they found it difficult to believe. LG&E did follow up and issued a WARNING in the next Bill to everyone using that type of connection.

I ditched the Windex with Ammonia-D, looked for other sources of Ammonia in the remaining cleaning products(some kind of floor cleaner had it) and got rid of all that.

Can't remember the last time I had a Pinhole in a Case Wall.
-----

However, if you all do not think a small amount of Ammonia applied directly to a Case will hurt it, then you should go right on and use them.

As for me, I'll pass on them. Best of luck to you all.

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
I was given some kind of cloth by an old-timer reloader a few years ago. The cloth has kind of a greasy feel to it. But wrap and spin a case in it about three revolutions, and it's shiny-bright. I have no idea what's in the cloth. I'd like to get another one...

I've found a few quick revolutions with a small piece of Scotch-brite cloth really cleans 'em up-- makes 'em look like gold. Puts tiny scratches in them, but what the hell. If that's too aggressive for you, try a small piece of a non-scratch Chore Girl...

What about Tarn-X on a small piece of cotton cloth?

You might be talking about Krazy-Cloth.

Do they shoot better? Not that I have seen, but they do not shoot worse and they chamber easier and resist tarnish better.

Will it increase bolt thrust? Not IMO after reading this where a polished dry chamber is better than an unpolished or rough chamber. But y'all read it and we'll discuss it.

The friction of coefficient for a flitzed surface is around .020

Man...if I had enough ammonia in the air to eat into household stuff I'd be more worried about my lungs than my appliances!! (although a gas leak is BAD)

All this makes me wonder about the bore cleaning materials I have with high percentages on Ammonia. And and residual thats left over in the chamber

quote:

All this makes me wonder about the bore cleaning materials I have with high percentages on Ammonia. And and residual thats left over in the chamber

NEVER use an ammonia based cleaning solvent. But this is the wrong forum....

Per removal of resizing lubricant: I use cheap, dollar-store cooking spray. It works just fine-- resized thousands with it. Takes just a quick spritz on a few hundred in the broiling tray of your oven. I resize 'em, then just wash the lot in hot, sudsy water with vigorous malice aforethought. Rinse copiously. Dry in your oven at LOW or WARM. That's 150 degrees in my oven. I heat 'em for about two hours. If I want to dry them fast, I use a thin-bottomed stainless steel skillet and fry them at low (gas) heat until the poppin' and spittin' stops. I use a stainless spatula to keep them moving. Works every time...

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
Man...if I had enough ammonia in the air to eat into household stuff I'd be more worried about my lungs than my appliances!! (although a gas leak is BAD)

That is the point - it doesn't take much, even the vapors will cause a problem without the Ammonia making direct contact with the material.
-----

quote:

Posted by Ray:
All this makes me wonder about the bore cleaning materials I have with high percentages on Ammonia. And and residual thats left over in the chamber

I lightly Lube the Bore after any cleaning with some Moly Grease on a snug Paper Patch.

But that still leaves the chamber. There I put some Alcohol on another snug Paper Patch wrapped on a Larger Bore Brush, and give it a couple of turns. Then follow with a dry Paper Patch. So far, no rust, but I do not oil the chamber.

Best of luck to you.

This is getting pretty heavy. I read the article Woods linked to us. Immediately took two Excedrin and went to bed. Can we start the discussion next week please?
As someone says here, "This is supposed to be fun." I hate to imagine what Varmint Al does for fun!

Woods wrote:
Will it increase bolt thrust? Not IMO after reading this where a polished dry chamber is better than an unpolished or rough chamber. But y'all read it and we'll discuss it.



Don Boyd

I know what you mean Don but there has been some interesting info in this thread and sometimes it takes someone like Varmint Al do do some research otherwise we end up relying on all sorts of rumours and so on.

Actually shooting is interesting in that it should be a simple engineering problem but yet a lot of the research/engineering appears not to have been done. All the "magic" surrounding reloading and fast and slow barrels and so on should be easy to explain with a bit of work but no one seems to be doing that work. Maybe there just isn't any money in it for anyone except the military and I guess they are not for printing their results. Or maybe the work is being done but I'm not looking in the right places for it.

In the end the differences between barrels, and loads, and why one barrel likes a particular bullet weight and so on should be easily quantifiable and if that work was done it would make our lives a lot easier. It would also mean that we all spend a lot less cash on load development and that might not be a good thing for some.

Eagle one makes a metel cleaner called NEVER DULL that works great! It's like a ball of cotton that you tear a piece off and it shines stuff like the dickens very quickly! I've used it on aluminum wheels, brass, stainless sinks, bumpers, etc. http://www.eagleone.com/pages/...itemid=1006&cat=5006

Same stuff I mentioned above. Most wally worlds in our area handle it. About $4.00 for a can that will last a long long time. It works great on brass as well as what it was designed for!
I buy 100 food service gloves for $1 and wear one on the hand that holds the polishing wad....then trigger the drill with the other hand. Makes things FAST CLEAN AND SIMPLE.

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
Same stuff I mentioned above. Most wally worlds in our area handle it. About $4.00 for a can that will last a long long time. It works great on brass as well as what it was designed for!
I buy 100 food service gloves for $1 and wear one on the hand that holds the polishing wad....then trigger the drill with the other hand. Makes things FAST CLEAN AND SIMPLE.

Yep, sorry there, I didn't notice that post you made, But it is good stuff. I get mine from Autozone.