I picked up a 6.5 Jap Arisaka that had been rechambered to 6.5 x 57 on the cheap and decided it would be good to experiement with. So I took a 6mm rem case (which is 6 x 57) and necked it up. Then loaded as follows:

primer: F215
bullet: hornady 160 RN
powder: Bullseye
charge: 33.0 grains

I also felt that the 160 grain hornday was not enough slug, so I slipped a 117 grain .257 bullet down the barrel too.

Then I chambered the round and tied the rifle to a tree. With about 40 yards of string, I hid behind another tree and pulled the trigger.

Amazingly, the gun did not blow up. The bolt was set back about 1/4 inch, so the lugs are deeply embedded in the receiver, never to open again. The extractor was blown off and the bolt release was broken. The floorplate was blown out and the mag box was stretched. The stock was split.

But the gun was intact, although not usable.

I was amazed at the durability of that rifle.

You enjoy blowing up rifles? Next time pick something garden variety like a Rem 700, there are too many of them around anyway!

JIMMINEY CHRISTMAS!!

a huge over charge and a partially blocked barrel?

DAMN!!

Did the barrel bulge/split?

Where you able (or try) to take the barrel off? I wonder of the threads also showed sheer.

Okay okay, I know it's ill to ask these questions, but the "patient" is dead.. on with the autopsy!!!

jeffe

Well, Ackley had similiar results. Strong pieces of shit, aren't they?

I sincerely doubt that ANY other bolt-action rifle would have survived this abuse intact!!

And exactly what is your point?

This is about the dumbest damn thing I have read in over 40 years of reloading...

500,

if you can possible get pictures that would be good.

Neat experiment and like all that have done it before you, you have proved that the Arisaka action is hell for stout.

Wonder if that was my other 6.5X257 that walked away back in 1969-71.
I have always wondered where it went, and why they only took one rifle and one shotgun in those two years I was off playing games for Unkie!

I still have, and hunt with my other 6.5X257 built on a rifle (barrel cut to 24") and it performs flawlessly with Hornady 129s, though this year I will send 140 SSTs downrange to harvest venison!

I have a couple of original Type 38s that I plan use to form a test bed for something more "modern" IF I ever get off my lazy duff and get the rechambering done!

They sure went out of their way to cut bad chambers in "all" of the Type 38s.

LouisB

Louis, it had a lyman peep rear and lyman hooded ramp front.

PC, I don't use a digital camera and am not good enough with a regular camera to show much on film. From a distance of 6 feet you would not immediately notice anything wrong except for the split stock.

There was no barrel bulge, no action bulge. I have not tried to get the barrel off.

If anyone else has an Arisaka they don't want, I would be happy to work with it.

Steve, I have only been reloading for 25 years, so I guess you will have to step on the gas to catch up!

[ 12-15-2002, 06:04: Message edited by: 500grains ]

The classic is the NRA story. Some moron rechambered a Type 38 to .30-06. Took it hunting. Got a deer with it. Went to gunsmith complaining of brutal recoil. Gunsmith spotted that the bore was still 6.5. Sent it to NRA. They test fired it and published pictures.

And after all that, the action and headspace were still good.

500grains - This isn't the first attempt to blow up a Jap rifle I've heard that failed to work. My old gunsmith of many years ago told me a very similar story of a test they did. Apparently many of those old Jap actions would blow up everything around them and still be holding!

I don't think it's a dumb stunt...but be careful doing it obviously. And I have to say I can think of better uses for old actions. Give to the needy.....

500 grains

Hope you salvaged sights before test.

I'm like the others, I think it is an interesting experiment and it is good to rerun it for each generation, if nothing else, just to dispel some of the myths going round. Old actions are getting harder to find though (except Mausers, they will outlast me with new supplies of that gun).
A member of the club I belong to did this experiment with a 6.5 Carcano, a gun known to be weak . . . set the barrel out a coupla threads, vaporized part of the case and fused the case head to the bolt. Still in one piece though.

My old Type 99 sporter is tight enough that I use .308 bullets in it.
Sub M.O.A.???
Heck who knows, I am only interested in M.O.D.
Minute of deer that is!

LouisB

Some one asked what might happen with a Rem 700 in a similar situation, so I offer this story as told to me by the gunsmith I use here in Sacramento.

My gunsmith has a few destroyed actions in his shop that have a story behind them. Seems an idiot brother-in-law of one of his good customers in years past decided he was going to start reloading for his two 30-06 rifles. He had aquired several types of powder in plastic bags, looked up a load for 180gr bullets that was about 60 gr. of "something". When started to charge the cases, he figured that gun powder is gun powder and just grabbed the first bag he could get his hands on. It turned out to be Bulleye. He loaded 20 rounds with this recipe. then headed for the range.

He started out with his Rem 700, loaded one, took aim off the bench and fired. He noticed that the recoil was rather severe for a 30-06 and from the description of the event as it was told to me, it resembled one of those guys firing Saeed's 577 T-Rex. The rifle flipped over his shoulder and landed on the ground behind him. He pick up the rifle was unable to open the bolt (no suprise). Other than that, the rifle look fairly normal.

Not realizing what had just happened, the idiot grabbed his second rifle, a sporterized M98, sat back down at the bench, loaded one, took aim and fired. This time the results were a bit different. He wasn't inusred seriously, but the action split into four pieces at the forward receiver ring and the barrel split around the chamber. The rear receiver ring was still intact, but separated from the front when the action broke in the area of the feed rails. The only thing that saved this idiot from a bolt in the face, was the rear locking lug. It held, but not by much. It looks like it started to shear and pushed back about 1/8 inch.

The gunsmith did a post-mortum on the Rem 700. There was no way to open the bolt and since the action was toast, he cut it open. The brass had melted and braised the bolt into the action. There was severe setback, and the chamber was swollen. To me, the most amazing parts of the story are that this idiot fired the second round and that the Rem 700 stayed in one piece.

David, that's an interesting story about the model 700. I thought that actions made from modern steel would holt together better until their breaking point, when they would shatter. It seems that a full '06 case of bullesye does not even reach the breaking point.

I also heard about a guy who fit 21 grains of bulleseye into a 45 LC. One shot and the top of the frame split and the cylinder split.

500grains

I don't know how true this is, but I read somewhere that Remington engineers believe that you cannot blow up a M700 action using modern smokeless powders. If true, it's a rash statement, but I guess 60 gr of Bullseye in an '06 goes pretty far to back that up.

My gunsmith also has a M700 bolt from a rifle chambered to 270 Win. Someone accidently loaded a 308 Win and pulled the trigger. The rifle held together, but is ruined. The 308 brass is welded to the bolt face and looks like a stright walled case. BTW, I have also seen the pieces of the M98 action and the cut up M700 from my initial post. It was quite impressive.

Try stuffing your 585 plumb full of Bullseye, and shoving a 540 grain HC bullet in the barrel. Now, thats a stunt! ~~~Suluuq

I recounted this a while ago. My gunsmith has a fireformed (and some!) case from the Birmingham proof house.

He sent them a barreled mauser action in 280imp and a copy of the Nosler book with 280imp loads. They sent him back a case with no base at all and the barreled action which had failed due to 'excessive headspace'.

On examination it transpired that 'the pages of the Nosler book had blown over in the wind' and they had fired a Proof 30-06 load through it.

Corrective action was taken and the rifle (same action) passed next time round.

In about 1972 or so we had a guy at Ft Richardson, Alaska (Anchorage) load his 6.5 Jap up with a full case of Bullseye, using a spoon as a powder measure. When he fired it the rifle blew up into dozens of pieces large and small. The parts were recovered and were mounted on a display board which used to be in the Wildlife Enforcement Office in the Wildlife Museum in Building 600.

A lot of "blow up" tests have been conducted with bolt action rifles. For the most part the actions pretty well stay together, that is, the bolts don't go flying out the rear like a 5000 grain projectile.

The issue with an action is how does it handle the gas escaping from a failed case head (presumably caused by severely excessive pressure). Some actions do a good job of directing away from the shooter and his various important anatomical parts, while others are not quite so good.

I believe I could have found a more long-lasting role for that Arisaka....

I'm with you 500, I can't think of much else to do with the ugly thing, but we have known for years that they are the strongest bolt action ever....

I filled a case with bullseye stuck a bullet half way down the barrel to boot and fired the $5.00 gun... it did split the barrel a little and I had to pound it open with a 3# hammer, but the action was not hurt at all...I never did blow that sucker up!

I'll give you $5.00 for it. You keep the sights.

Craigster:

quote:

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Strong pieces of shit, aren't they?

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ROFLAMO!