I just bought a Pac-Nor barrel, and read what their web page has to say on the subject. I think it is about as good a system as I have seen.

http://www.pac-nor.com/care/

While talking with them, I learned that they are moving away from JB paste. It's good stuff, but they are seeing a lot of barrel damage from careless use. Cleaning rod scores the inside.

When they get a barrel back that is not shooting, it is usually either cleaning damage, or copper fouling.

They use Witch's Brew, which is new to me, to remove the copper. I ordered some, and am going to give it a try. It says it has no ammonia.

For a clad cleaning rod, I'm going to assemble my present screw-together rod, and Locktite the joints. Then, I'm going to slip a piece of electronics shrink tubing over it, and shrink it snug.

Hope this helps.

What sort of damage are they finding from JB's? I've used JB's since my rifle was new and have seen great results. It now only takes one pass with kroil, a couple of patches with JB's, a kroil patch or two and a drying patch to get it clean.

Denton,

That post is interesting. I didn't know the oil after cleaning would help reduce the amount of copper fouling, but makes some sense. I like to read every barrel makers recommendations. I have even called the others who don't state anything about barrel care on their web site.

I'm on board with Jules! I have to add another endorsement for Wipe-Out. I bought some clear tubing at the hardware store and zip-tied it to the dispensor nozzle. I just shoot it into the barrel until the foam starts leaking out the muzzle. I plug the muzzle and leave it until morning. A couple of dry patches and off I go. If I'm in a hurry I use Coppermelt. I use M-Pro 7 for carbon in AR-15's. Better living through modern chemistry.
JCN

More bores are ruined with a cleaning rod than by shooting I'd bet....

I like Wipe Out foam, CR-10 in that order to remove copper fouling..but leave it in the bore about 20 minutes and with Wipe Out you can leave it in the bore for hours without harm....Butches is akin to pure water in my book...

The strongest copper remover is the homemade 25% amonia and Hydrogen Peroxide mix called Blue Goop by the bench resters, I use it when I am in a hurry to clean or if I have an impossible bore to clean...It requires some safety precautions.

Once a year after hunting season I clean my bores with one of the above followed by a polishing with Kroil and JBs, then cleaned ith Hoppes or whatever and a patch covered with RIG....

During my long hunting season I don;t actually clean my guns, I use a bore snake with some mild cleaner on it and thats about it..If I use monolithic bullets I will clean with Wipe Out one application, followed by dry patches and oil the bore lightly...shoot a couple to foul the bore and I am back in business....

A rifle bore does not need to be squeeky clean, otherwise you would not fire fouling shots!

I wipe my rod off after every few strokes (that does not sound very good, does it?).
There are now some carbon fiber rods available that should not pick up embedded debris.
JCN

I took wipe out's challenge. Take your cleanest barrel in your cleanest gun. Then use wipe out over night and see what comes out of the barrel. The first patch was blue as could be. I thought it was a very clean barrel. I am a believer after that. I had been using Shooter's Choice and Butches bore shine. If it doesn't need much cleaning I will use the last of my Shooter's Choice and butches but if it needs real cleaning I will use Wipe Out. "D"

Parshal, you're probably not seeing damage because you're probably careful about how you use it. My understanding is that people who get carried away, and are rubbing a steel rod againste the bore, score the bore and cause problems.

I would venture a guess that if you use a clad rod, and a brass jig, or if you're a careful cleaner with a steel rod, you won't damage a bore with it. I use it for stubborn cases, and think it is great. I haven't had any problem, either, but I'm going to switch to Pac-Nor's recommendation.

JCN,
I use that exact same regimine. WipeOut is the best thing since sliced bread!

Geronimo

D Hunter, I took that Wipe-Out challenge too. The next day all my patches came out perfectly clean. I guess I was cleaning my rifles pretty good to begin with. However, as I stated before, I do like Wipe-Out for copper fouling over just about anything else now.

Hi,
I bought some WipeOut the other day but I haven't used it yet. Squirting this stuff down the barrel seems like a different concept. How do you keep it out of the action?
Does someone make a some kind of chamber plug?
Thanks,
Jeff

Hot core, next time you're at the hardware store, notice what the abrasive on some sandpaper is made of. Aluminum oxide! Now what do you suppose is on the outside of that aluminum rod? The cheap jointed AL. rods will bow and rub no matter what you do to them,(locktite will only assure they don't unscrew). I won't risk a chance of rubbing a hard abrassive against any part of my rifles bores. I've heard that ground glass is used in the primer pellet? I've never been able to substantuate that. But it would be very hard on bores,(it was in reference to primer residue causing ram wear in reloading machines).

I use dewey coated rods and pro-shot jags, flannel patches and brass core bronze brushes. Also a pro-shot adjustable bore guide, cleaning from the chamber end while supported in a midway vise.

I don't think getting ALL the copper out of a barrel is important UNLESS you are going to start using molly.

To keep the Wipe-Out out of the action I clamp the rifle with the barrel lower than the action. I push the plastic tube into the chamber, then squirt the foam into the barrel. The foam doesn't back up hill. I almost feel guilty about not spending hours scrubbing out the barrel with weak ammonia cleaners, or worrying about putting stronger ammonia cleaners in a barrel and forgetting to clean them out for several hours (or overnight!).
JCN

Jeff57, to guard against getting Wipeout in the action or on the stock, I use a Sinclair bore guide which has a rubber O-ring around the portion that fits into chamber. This seals the action from solvents. I've got a piece of vinyl that I place under the end of the bore guide (the end that sticks out of the action) to protect the stock from any Wipeout that might expand out of the bore guide.



A chamber plug won't work because it will prevent the WipeOut from expanding into the chamber end of the bore.



JCN, I like your tube idea too. I might try that.

Jeff 57,
I just lightly stuff a large patch into the chamber, lay the rifle on its side with the barrel sticking out past the end of the table and directly over a bucket. I spray the WipeOut into the muzzle counting 1001...1002, then I quickly remove the WipeOut and block the muzzle with my finger until the foam starts to come out of the vent hole in the receiver ring. At this point I blot away any excess foam from the vent hole or muzzle then go watch TV. I come back the next day run 3 or 4 dry patches then a lightly oiled patch...DONE ! If you really want to be anal you can give a light scrubbing every 5th cleaning or so with a solvent to get some residual carbon or powder fouling out.

Geronimo

Thanks for the help everybody.

Jeff

Some comments on this thread:

I use a wood dowl and a cleaning patch to plug the chamber...I use a surgical tube of about 12 inches on the wipe out can, run it down the bore and squirt, then it will come sliding back you as the foam pushes it out, may need another quick squirt..Let stand several hours and dry bore and oil...

I use only SS one piece rods, aluminum should be a crime punishable by death; jointed rods are taboo; Teflon rods are abrasive to steel; coated rods collet "grit" ;

After a number of hot and heavy prarie dog, rock chuck and pinhead shoots I found that the boresnake with a bit of whatever on the brush and about 3 passes will restore accuracy to any rifle regardless of the number of shots fired through it..I usely make the 3 or 4 passes at about 100 rounds with most guns and 30 rounds with a couple of others depending on the bore...

I squeeky clean with SS rod and Blue Goop, JB & Kroil, Wipe out or whatever, only at the end of hunting season, then grease with RIG and store...Use a boresnake through the hunting season..More guns are ruined with over cleaning than by shooting I would bet...

I don't believe that anyone can clean a gun well enough that WipeOut will not get a blue patch of some sort..I have tried that too many times and if one does then he is certainly over cleaning his rifle and thats worse than not cleaning it...

remember too that a bronze tip or jag will make a patch turn blue with any Amonium cleaner like Blue Goop, CR-10 or Wipe Out etc...Use a nylon brush and steel jags with cleaning patches.

Again no need to get a bore squeeky clean as you stil have to foul it before it will shoot and with overly clean bore it sometimes takes upwards to as many as 10 or 20 shots to bring it to its potential..With a fairly clean bore it takes only a couple.

I cleaned a couple of rifles yesterday for the first time with Wipeout, WOW!!! That stuff works. I've never enjoyed cleaning guns but that sure takes alot of the work out of the chore. I do like the idea about plugging the chamber and using a length of tubing. Thanks for everyones input.
Jeff

yea, who sells steel jags??

Although i'm using Wipe Out at this time....Brake Free also has a foam copper cleaner>>>>>>>>

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00071BCF3



While Wipe Out works great for gettin the copper out I noticed it don't get all the powder fouling. That is the reason I use M-pro7 with Wipe Out.

I must add this...When my barrels are that clean it takes somewhere between 6 to 12 shots before before it will start to group



I use Stainless and coated rods but I don't know about runnin a steel jag down the bore. I'll stick with the bronze ones.

Does that patch always cover the whole jag?? Go right ahead. I'll not take that chance. Just can't see a reason to run a piece of steel "that is as hard or harder then the barrel steel? down none of my tubes.

Well, um, yes, it does. I personally wouldn't send a patch down the bore unless it covered the jag. Maybe other guys use smaller patches? Beats me.

Russ