ZM

1. Control
I decide what goes into each load, usually in combinations not available in any other way or place. Also, I can and do examine my components and loads more closely than the inspectors at any of the factories that I've visited. I trust my loads more.

2. I HATE asking for freebies, mainly (I suppose) because from the time I was about three or four, my dad repeatedly and vigorously condemned asking for freebies. The only thing worse was hinting ("I sure could put that to good use," etc).
I've just been prepping a box of very old but only once-fired .357 Magnum cases. I'll load 'em, probably, with Keith bullets that I cast and Hercules 2400 that I bought -- or maybe with Hodgdon H-240 that I bought. H-240 -- that stuff HAS to've been in my locker a long time! I bought my last two canisters of H-240 in 1961 or 1962 and haven't seen any more since then. Haven't opened 'em -- still working on some I bought a few years earlier.

Control -- AKA independence

So I say that handloaders have destroyed more barrels than all anti-gunners all over the world combined.

If I say a barrel has a "live" of 5000 rds, even if I do 3 sighters for every shot on game, that�s 1250 game animals! If I shoot 15 pieces of big game ( I�m definitely not talking Varmints and Target shooting ) per annum this rifle alone - and I prefer to have more than one, and I know You all too!! - will do for the next 83+ years ...

For reloading costs one should not forget: price of the outfit ( You don�t have more items than a LEE loader?? ), extra barrels, some single pieces of bullets or brass where loading does not pay off, or firing strings with loads You don�t want to use ( too low, e.g. )

If You have a fine piece of blued steel, with quarter rib and finely adjusted sights, or a double, expensive, and You know it will eventually shoot off the face and wobble, buy factory ammo with appropriate bullets, sight in and go hunting ...

Waiting for some replies ;-))) H

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There are many 'ages' of reloading. We might start for a specific reason but generally end up doing it for different reasons.

Cost, making a rifle more versatile, rarity, accuracy, minimising recoil/pressure, copying original ballistics, improving killing power, increasing velocity etc

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[This message has been edited by phurley (edited 10-02-2001).]

Let's say he bought a .22-250 and is using the same components I use:
Brass: Remington $18 per 100, 18 cents per load
Primer: Remington 9-1/2 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 38.4 grains of H-380 17 per pound, 10 cents per load
Bullet: Sierra 52 grain HPBT 10 per hundred, 10 cents per load
That comes to 40 cents per round to reload, or $8 per box.
Winchester factory is $9 per box...he could have bought 49 boxes of factory for the same amount of money, and could then sell his once fired brass for 9 cents each!
So he would have gotten $88 back, actually shooting as many rounds for $88 less than what it cost him to reload the same number!

Or, if he decided to keep his brass and continue reloading it, then the cost would be 22 cents per round or $4.40 per box.
He would have to load 86 more boxes to break even! That's a total of 135 boxes of ammo to finally break even on his initial expendature.
(Now, these costs do not reflect any spilled, lost or ruined items, nor do they reflect shipping and HazMat charges.)

Okay, let's pick a larger caliber. How about 6mm Remington?
Brass: Remington $17 per 100, 17 cents per load
Primer: Remington 9-1/2 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 43.2 grains of IMR-4350 19 per pound, 12 cents per load
Bullet: Sierra 85 grain HPBT 12 per hundred 12 cents per load
That comes to 43 cents per round to reload or almost $9 per box. Factory is available for $11 per box.

Still wanna go bigger? How about .25-06 Remington?
Case: Remington $22 per 100, 22 cents per load
Primer: Winchester WLR 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 52.5 grains of H-4831 19 per pound, 15 cents per load
Bullet: Sierra 120 grain HPBT 14 per hundred, 14 cents per load
And now we have the cost at 53 cents per round or $11 per box. Factory is available for $12 per box.

Okay...now you wanna us premium bullets? Fine!
Case: Remington $22 per 100, 22 cents per load
Primer: Winchester WLR 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 53.3 grains of H-4831 19 per pound, 15 cents per load
Bullet: Nosler 120 grain Partition 36 per hundred 36 cents per load
Wow...75 cents per round! Or $15 per box. Factory is available for $17 per box (and now is the time to remind you of the $377 spent for equipment!)

So, you wanna shoot a magnum? How about 7mm Remington?
Case: Remington $26 per 100, 26 cents per load
Primer: CCI-200 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 64.6 grains of RL-22 18 per pound, 17 cents per load
Bullet: Sierra 168 grain HPBT 17 per hundred, 17 cents per load
That's 62 cents per round, or $13 per box. Factory? $16 per box.

Sure, these numbers show that it is cheaper to reload, if you don't take into consideration the
initial cost of the equipment, shipping and handling charges, HazMat charges and the time
expended. What? Time is not worth anything? Then why the hell are there so many people
looking for the "best" load because they don't wanna spend the time to properly work-up a
load for their firearm?

Once again, let me say that I am NOT a typical shooter. I have around 100 firearms I reload for.
I do save money by reloading! But that is not the reason I reload!!

Reloading is less messy and dangerous than fishing;
Reloading is less messy and is faster in results than gardening;
Reloading is safer than racing cars and motorcycles;
Reloading is more interesting and practical than going to ball games;
Reloading is at 50%-50% with coming to dinner on time;
Reloading (at this age anyway) is at 45% (vs. 55%) of heading off for sex. Less if one is younger, of course.
Reloading is by its very nature a continuing middle-finger gesture toward the Antis, for whom our very existence is an affront.

Add to the list if you wish......

Brian

I DO reload ( if I have the time ). For handguns its easy and pays for itself. For rifles, game shot with a self assembled round IS something different. And I�ve learned a _lot_ about guns and ballistics.

Even a non-reloader should buy reloading manuals, else You hardly know anything about the calibers You use.

This for sure is one of the most polite forums I ever heard of: I was ready for a lot of flak, but freedom of thought is allowed there.

Have fun! H

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Initial investment:
RCBS Rockchucker $100
Dies- $40
Shell holder- $4
Case lube kit- $15
Case trimmer (Lee)- $5 guide, $5 trimmer
Reloading tray- $6
Dial caliper- $20
Powder funnel- $3
Deburring tool- $10
Scale- $65
Total- $273 (however, much of the equipment can be used for other cartridges)

Loads:
Shells- $40 / 20 shells
Powder- IMR4350 $16 / lb 57 rds / lb powder (this would be cheaper if I purchased the 8 lb keg)
Bullets- $28 / 50 (Hornady 500gr RN)
Primers- $1.75 / 100
Total- $2.86 / round

Purchased ammo:
$100 / 20 rds
Total- $5 / round

Savings:
$2.14 / round

Break even:
128 rds must be made to break even

Rounds loaded in past year:
>350
Fired:
>280

It should also be noted that I can load each shell at least 8 times- for greater savings.
As you can see, in the first year that I have owned a 460 Wby, I have paid for the reloading components and equipment a couple times over. If I reloaded only for my 6.5x55 or 357's, then, of course, it would have taken a long time to break even. But, when you consider Weatherbys, Dakotas, and other high dollar rounds, the savings can be substantial.

As a final note, I am glad that I finally did run the numbers on this round as this has been something that I have wanted to do for a while now.
Shawn

First it is FUN. I just love doing it myself

Second, I can really dial in just about any firearm. From personal experience, I have an Browning Abolt in 30-06 that just flat will not hold any factory round that I have tried (And I had this rifle before my investment in reloading so I have been down 10 miles of bad road with factory rounds) to less than 3". But now I have both a 165 grain and a 200 grain load that are well below MOA.

Third there is an environmental impact that comes into play. Brass is a finite material, it will run out, we must conserve what nature has provided. Reloading does just that.

Fourth, the savings. What some of the above posts do not take into account is that the expense of the equipment is nothing in the world of firearms. Lets say you want to purchase a new rifle. Lets say you have a midline manufacturer/model in mind.

Lets say around 500 for the firearm.
A midline quality scope from the Leo or Burris people=about 400 give or take.

So there is 900 bucks on one rifle. Avoid that rifle, and now you can outfit yourself with a decent setup, including a lot of the extras that do not come in the basic kit.

Lets see:
Press kit, in one caliber, decent mfg. $350.
Tumbler - 70
Trimmer - 100
Primer pocket prep tools - 50
Misc items. --- 100
total-----------------------670

You got change coming.

Now lets say that you load several different rounds. Lets imagine that you have 6. That comes to a shade over 100 bucks (not including extra diesets) per cartridge investment in equipment that will last a lifetime of shooting, lets say 50 years which works out to a little over $2.00 inital investment/per cartridge/per year (not including diests here and there).

The more cartridges you have, the less this comes out to. Plug in the diesets, and you get a few extra dollars added/per year/(depending on how long you keep the dies)

And now a whole new world of shooting is open to you. I would say that there are about 60 rounds (rifle) commercially available at a well equipped gun store. Probably 10 or so stocked by "discount" merchants. Just to hazard a guess, I would estimate that there are at least 3000 rounds that have been chambered over the years. Standard-obsolete-metric-and wildcat.

The above firearms can ususally be had for a lot less money because most people who own firearms just do not have the knowledge or inclinaton to fool with one of them. But you do. Personally, I will never agian be put off of a good deal due to a "funny" cartridge. As a handloader, you can form many, many, cases. You know that most bullet diameters are readily available. You know that the diemakers have thousands of prints already loaded into their CAD/CAM machines and more than likely the specialty dies can be run at your request, if not you can just send them some fired rounds or a chamber cast.

Wanna shoot grandpa's gun? You can do that too. You can run genuine blackpowder rounds that are safe to the standards of the guns back then.

You will understand your hobby and sport much much better. You will be able to make rounds that shoot much better,and have access to many more kinds. You will become the respected guru of your neighborhood, the guy that everybody comes to with the "rookie" questions, which although sometimes they do seem redundant we all ask/asked at one point.

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Safety & Ethics,Accuracy, Velocity, Energy
Joe M

quote:

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Originally posted by ricciardelli:
Okay, let's say that Joe Newshooter buys his first gun and wants to reload for it. The hardware will cost as follows:
RCBS Rock Chucker Master Reloading Kit $250
Powder Trickler 10
1 set of dies 29
Shell holder 4
case tumbler 48
p-rimer pocket cleaner 6
caliper 30
total for a very BASIC set-up $377
(And this is a VERY BASIC set-up, the actual cost will end up being twice that!)

Let's say he bought a .22-250 and is using the same components I use . . .

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No, let's say he bought a Lee nutcracker for about $23, a scale for whatever they cost these days, and a Lee Factory Crimp Die and a Lee case trimmer and an RCBS priming tool instead of the tumbler he didn't need. Then let's compare his cost of reloading .416 Rigby to the cost of buying factory .416 Rigby.

The answer, as you know, comes out much different. Each person has his own question, which, strangely enough, results in each person's having his own answer.

As my brother would say, people who make blanket statements are wrong.

I handload, not to be able to shoot more, but to be able to shoot better.

There IS a difference between the two...

-- Mats

2)The thrill of accuracy

3) Too shoot moore (specially my 6,5x57R)

4) I also like beeing a mad scientist

PerN

Ps! I told my wife it was purely of economical reason

Now, I have bought a few other toys along in the years, but I can't tell you how much ammo I've loaded with the above. I got into it orginally because Norma Jap ammo was $6.50 a box! (Priced any of that lately?)

So, today it cost $350 to get started.. What's ammo going to go for in 30 years?

So I reload because:
It's cheaper!
It's fun!
I like playing mad scientist!
With one exception,I have yet to find a rifle I couldn't eventually build more accurate ammo than factory...

quote:

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Originally posted by ricciardelli:
[B]Okay, so what is reloading all about?

Why do I ask? Because once again I have noticed all kinds of messages being posted by people looking for short-cuts and "cheap" supplies.

Reloading is NOT about either.

B]

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I reload to save money!!

Your analysis is not relavent and makes no difference to me. I still reload to save money.

As put by one of my favorite posters said on his website:

*****

"I first started "rolling my own" ammunition somewhere in the early 1960's. Probably around 1962 or 1963. I was shooting a .357 Magnum, a .44 Magnum and a Super .38. Factory ammo was fun and plentiful, but it wasn't cheap.

A friend of mine, named Sanderford, had an old Pacific press and dies for the .357 and the .44. He showed me how to make my own cartridges for about 1/3rd the cost of factory ammo. I became hooked immediately!"

*****

Now there is a person I can admire. He has a fabulous website and a trememdous insight into reloading.

He would never tell a person that they can or cannot so something for whatever reason they want to!

JerryO

Glad you like my website.....

I plagiarised the reloading 'ages' comment from you because it rang so true allthough my ages were;-

Want light bullet loads for lighter deer
Want accuracy to talk about
Revert to producing standard weight loads because they work better
Wife gets pissed off
Minimise reloading to one proven bullet weight per rifle
Get out stalking more

Then I got really cheap and bought a pound of unique, a Lyman reloading manual and a Lee lead pot and 150 gr bullet mold.

shot hundreds of rounds for pennies each.

Can't remember why I started reloading. The ultimate cost savings is sell the guns and buy meat at the store, BUT if you're going to shoot and don't want to be stuck with .22rf only, reloading is the only way to shoot a lot and not go broke.

I like doing things myself. I seldom have to call a plumber or electrician, and don't like using factory stuff except to get the cases to reload again.

Like many, Saving money is good.
Also factory ammo for 17-machIV 17 ackley hornet and .20 caliber and other wildcats are basically non-existant. Try buying loaded ammo with 180 gr. nosler ballistic tips for 338 ultra mag etc. As I currently reload for 26 different calibers, there is no way to purchase the combinations that I can reload.

However another reason I reload is the satisfaction and joy I get when I can get out of town with my two teenage sons and go to our ranch house and spend an evening without TV or radio. Its amazing the conversations and communication you can have with your sons while doing a task like reloading. I have also enjoyed showing them how to read a micrometer, a caliper, scales and to instill in them the idea that if something is worth doing it is worth doing right. It also is worth more than I can say to experience your son taking his first deer with the ammo he loaded himself the night before.
GWB

Daethorn