Hi you all



Being rather newbie in this appasionate art of reloading, I don�t want to expend money in rather "not needed" stuff ...



Is the neck sizer die really needed ? I am not talking about the needness of sizing the neck but of the fact that this should be done with an specific die, and not with the same full length die (just with a couple of turns off)



Is this so? any pros and or cons of using just one sort of die for both types of sizings ???????





Regards

I've never purchased a neck sizing die, well, correct that, I did once have a Lee collet neck sizing die in 6.5X55.

The theory behind neck sizing is that in a "sloppy" factory chamber, the case expands on the first firing, and if you only neck size, the brass will align better in the chamber, and the brass will last longer due to less working of the brass.

Downsides are that eventually you will need to at least set the shoulder back, as it will be difficult to chamber brass after a few firings, and, if the chamber is off center or lopsided, then neck sized only brass will follow the chamber, not the throat.

Personally I like reliable ammunition, so full length size. I've never seen a study that shows how much groups shrink by neck size, if any. You can produce accurate ammunition for an accurate rifle by just fl sizing, priming, adding powder and seating bullets. Learn the basics first, and add other steps later if you want to try and fine tune things.

I like to make my reloading as simple and straightforward as possible. I'll sell an inacurate gun rather then spend hours trying to find some magin reloading step to make up for a bad gun.

NO, you don't NEED a neck sizer. It's just nice to have the option of neck sizing OR FL sizing. If Hot Core is around he'll tell you that partially sizing with a FL die to produce a slight push fit when chambering the round produces the most accurate ammo around. I do both, find little if any difference, and prefer neck sizing about 4 reloads before partially full sizing and annealing the brass.

Stick with your full length die, you'll give up nothing. At some point if you continue you can determine your requirements for a neck sizer and get it then.

thanks guys ...

But is it really necesary to have THE neck size die or can I accomplish the same results using just the FL die, using it a couple of turns off ?

Regards,
Martin

You can do it pretty well with the FL die. Sometimes the FL die will slightly size the sides if you try to use it on the entire neck, and this *can* shift the shoulder *slightly* leading to problems chambering, which *might*...well you get the picture. Since the NS die doesn't grip the sides of the case, crooked necks are easier...and that was the problem I ran into. Personally I had nothing but trouble (runout) with the neck sizer in the one caliber I tried...now it works fine for a decapping/expanding die so I can size and expand in seperate steps!

I am now a die hard partial FL sizing guy. YMMV! Experimenting with stuff like this is part of the addiction!

The secondary beauty of the lee collet NS die is that you dont need case lube. THis greatly speeds the sizing operation.

Definately not needed. Most conventional neck sizers do not make good runnout except the lee and the new redding bushing dies. A well tuned fl die will make match grade ammo easily.

I second bajabill,
Not having to lube saves a lot of time. The Lee collet necksizers work really well.

If your pressed for time, or like me, just plain lazy, get a Lee collet neck die.
They work, and you can save time, and it doesnt work your brass as much as FL sizing each time.(Read: more firings from brass.)

Some argue this, but it has held true for me..sakofan..

If a chamber is round, smooth, the bore is aligned with the chamber and the load not too hot just neck sizing will work. Cast bullet loads are an application.



For hunting with full power loas there is no sense in fooling around so a FL die is wanted then.



The Lee Collet die is a neat tool however if a case needs to to FL sized after it's neck has been sized with a Lee collet it may crack the necks if a conventional FL die is used.

Can you please explain me the whole process of partial full lenght sizing ? Which are the differences (in results)with neck sizing ???

If this question is so evident, please forgive a rather newbie wanting the leave this stage !!!

Partial full length sizing, for the want of a better term, means using a FL sizing die to FL size a case to fit the chamber of a specific gun.

This usually means not setting the shoulder of a bottle necked case back as far as the die/shellholder combination allows.

One should understand that there are separate chamber and cartridge tolerances so that they will always fit together. Since things vary a FL die and shellholder might be able to push a shoulder back to SAMMI specs or beyond.

The primary reason for setting a FL die to size just enough is to avoid insipiant head separations at the expansion web.

Depending on the taper of the body for any cartridge, partial full sizing may slightly size the body at the shoulder and will also enable restoring the shoulder to enable chambering. Neck sizing has enough clearance to not alter either of those two dimensions. Both size the neck.

In a test done today, and the object of the test was to instruct a "new reloader" in the difference in NS and FL sizing, I used a single lot of brass fired from one rifle(7mmMag) and ran 3, 3 shot groups across a chronograph to demonstrate the difference. The rifle is a light barrelled 700ADL synthetic so there is not much that would classify it as a match rifle!!! The group size was "not much"!!! I mean when we're talking .658 vs .799 on a factory rifle.....that's better than most folks can shoot them anyway!! The difference I wanted to show him was the velocity spread of the FL vs the NS stuff! I acheived that!! The FL sized brass(all brass had primer pockets unifored, deburred flash holes and trimmed to the exact same length) exhibited a 54fps (2835-2889)spread in velocity while the NS sized brass had an 8fps spread 2859-2867 spread.....did the deer know the difference? Prbably not!!! But that was 100 yards!! What if student shoots the same bullet at 500 yards with the 54fps difference? For most intents and purposes the FL stuff will suffice! For the few of us out here still searching for the "holy grail" (we'll never find that .001 group(that's a"one hole group to the utmost!!!!)using most anything available to us today!!) we'll try to cut the variables as far as we can and that is what NS sizing does!! Not to mention it let's you use brass a few more times before discarding!!! As far as people disdaining the use of NS ammo in hunting rifles due to the "feeding" of the rounds?????/Get a life folks!! The last time I used two shots on a deer was 1991 and the first shot was a miss due to misestimating the distance!!! Second round fed just fine and broke his neck.....like the first one was supposed to have!!! Anyway, if you miss, I guess that makes him a "Doublemint Deer" .....get the fun of shooting at him twice!!! GHD

One way to set your FL die is to put a washer or a penny on the shell holder and tighten the die down to that.

More precise way:
1. Insert brass in shell holder and raise ram to highest position
2. Remove expander from FL die and screw die down until it just touches the neck
3. Lower the ram and measure the neck length with a caliper almost to the shoulder
4. Screw the die in more accordingly, one turn is approximately .070"
5. Try sizing the brass and turning the die in more to get where you want it, you should be able to see it
6. Set the lock ring and put the expander back in and it's all set

I use a Redding NS die on my .300 Weatherby and get much longer brass life, and also less runout. The die has the floating neck expander, and I dip the case mouth in graphite powder to lube it.