I have just noticed that my Forster dies have walked away, or have been mislaid.

So I am in the market for new dies. What do you recommend?

I will be shooting my 223/5.56x45 in ARs. I don’t anticipate shooting competition, but I don’t want my accuracy to be limited to my equipment.

Another set of Forster! And send the FL die to Forster and have them hone the neck to a specified inside neck diameter (loaded round diameter - .003 or .004", say). Have them remove the expander ball at the same time and size with the decapper but without the expander. You may consider getting a second expander assembly with an expander ball installed, just in case you ever need to fix an out of round neck.

Now you have about the best seater available, and you'll get absolutely minimal runout from your sizing operation - with a thoroughly smooth feeling as you size. Sweet, accurate and very reasonable.

- mike

Mike,
Would that setup work for multiple rifles, or is that a Competition setup?

I want ammo that will work in several rifles. If I am thinking this is SHTF ammo, would you still reccomend this setup?

Redding Competition Die Set. Interchangable neck bushings in the FL sizing die. Get the optional carbide button sizing kit to go with the set.

quote:

Originally posted by ddunn:
Mike,
Would that setup work for multiple rifles, or is that a Competition setup?

I want ammo that will work in several rifles. If I am thinking this is SHTF ammo, would you still reccomend this setup?

The die honed to a particular inside neck diameter makes the setup I suggested more suitable when you use just a single brand of brass - or at least brass that does not vary much in neck thickness. If you want to use all sorts of brass, it is probably better to rely on using a die (e.g Forster) with an expander.

Other than that, there is nothing in the setup I suggested, which will stop brass sized this way from being used in multiple guns.

To use re-sized brass in multiple rifles, you basically have to achieve sized dimensions matching the smallest of your chambers. Since both chambers and dies vary in dimensions, whether you can achieve this contains an element of uncertainty. Die makers are pretty good at making small dies, though, to avoid complaints from customers with smallish chambers.

What is less than optimal in trying to achieve this, is that on top of working the brass more than necessary, you also have to reduce head-shoulder dimensions to match that of the smallest chamber. In longer chambers, this will mean increased tendency for case head separations. You'll have to watch your brass like a hawk to make sure you avoid this, and possibly discard brass earlier than you would if you were sizing for one rifle only.

For this reason, I keep both brass and FL sizing dies separate for each rifle - even if chambered for the same caliber. But we all have different requirements.

So in total, yes you can use the honed Forster die without the expander for several guns, but you probably limit yourself in what brass you wish to use. If you want to use all sorts of (pickup) brass, use a die with an expander. Forster would still be my recommendation based on price, quality of the seater and the construction of the expander (high in the die).

- mike

Mike, I am not really conserned with overworking my brass. I figure I will loose it before I wear it out.

Like many others on this forum, I have a half dozen 223s, a half dozen 223 die sets, and 10,000 pieces of .223 brass.

By the time anyone gets to that state, he probably has found a system that meets his accuracy expectations and is of the opinion that anyone who doesn't do it the same way as him is a crazy fool

My shpeal:
For sizing .223 I have:
Lee
RCBS
Redding "S" FL
(3) Forster FL honed out to different neck diameters.

I think in bushings, I like .246"
In honed necks, I like .245"

In .223 seaters I have:
Lee
RCBS
Forster Ultra seater [sliding sleeve, micrometer]
Bonanza benchnrest [sliding sleeve]


I don't think it is the dies as much as the skill of the operator.[Take out the expander ball, chamfer the neck, bump the shoulder back .001", seat the bullet straight, seat the bullet so it touches the lands, use good bullets, use a 40X scope, no Copper fouling, no hot barrel warping, no stock touching barrel, rifle is held the same way for each shot, the cross hairs are horizontal with target, and go on a day with no wind]

I have got repeated sub moa 5 shots at 100m with 8mm surplus rifles, Sierra bullets, and RCBS plain vanilla dies.

And .223 is allot easier to get groups with than 8mm.

Redding "S" dies are not good for me with factory chambers.

I have a .250" neck .223 reamer that makes chambers that will work with the floating bushing.

But with the SAAMI chamber I like a FL die with the expander ball removed. [Or the neck lapped out enough so the expander ball slips through without causing a bent neck]

and once you have bent the neck with an "S" die or a sizing die with the expander ball pulling through tightly, no die can fix the bent brass. The only known cure for a bent neck is to fire the brass again in a chamber.