I am hunting in Wisconsin where the shots on Whitetail are from 30-200 yrds my rifle is Bolt action and has a 22.5 tube, I have been hunting with a 300 WM and have retire it and my self. Can you all help with some suggested loads? Like Ray I have used up all my old 4831 and am looking at 760, 748. R19. 4350 I am not sure what to invest in and funds are limited, also another question will a fast powder like R15 or varget purduce a sharper felt recoil than that of a slower powder even if you use more of it ??? a discusion I have going on here.Can you all help me thank for your come back.
Old Timer

Old timer, Neighbor, I use 50.5grs. of Varget with the 150gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, very accurate load, I don't think that Varget or RE15 has more of a sharper felt recoil, last time I shot my 06, I shot some fouling shots with 50grs. IMR4350 and some 190gr Hornadys, and they both kicked more than I care to admit, I'm used to shooting my 6mm, 223 and such, I wouldn't hesitate to try some RE15, also, that powder is awesome in my 7mm-08, I might try it in my 06 sometime, but don't use the rifle too much anymore, I'm a short action fan, they do whatever a long action will do. I also loaded the above load in a friends 06 Browning S/S, and he's quite pleased with it. Jay

[ 08-07-2003, 04:51: Message edited by: Jay Gorski ]

Imr 4320 and Imr 3031 for 150gr in 06 very accurate.

Thank you for your reply,
Is it a good ida or possible to get 3100 plus with a 150 gr.?
Old Timer

51.2gr of IMR4064 has worked well for me in both of my 06's. Velocity runs a little over 2900. Very good accuracy in both rifles.

I'm sure you could get 3100 allright, but it might be a "warm" load.

62.0 gr's of H4350 yields 3,045 fps with a 150 gr. Hornady FBSP from my 22" bbl'd M70. For shots out to 200 yards I'd load it at around 2,850 fps with a mild load of H4350 or H4895.

The 30/06 is one of those calibers that tends to work well with many different powders. In my opinion, the best powder for light bullets (125 to 150 gr.) in the 30/06 is IMR 4064. I'd start at about 48 or 49 grains, and work up to a max of 52 or possibly 53 grains.

Depending on your rifle, you may be able to get 3100 fps from it with 150 gr. bullets, but to do so you will probably need a very hot load.

62 gr. of RL-19 and a 150 Ballistic Tip is the load for both of my 30-06's.

[ 08-07-2003, 04:27: Message edited by: waxman ]

The 150's ain't bad, but I use the 165 B-Tip with 57 grs. of IMR-4350 with Win. or mil-surp brass (LC-69) with a Win. Lg. Rifle primer, and it is a sweet combo, with my M-1917 Enfield made under Winchester contract. The deer I shot last year never moved except to go straight down, I came into several pieces of the LC-69 brass last year and it worked well. Just my opinion.

Old timer, One doesn't really need to push a bullet that fast in the Wisconsin woods or fields for that matter, just reread one of my Rifleshooter mags., and saw a picture of Craig Boddington and a WT he shot at 110 paces with a 30-30 trapper, 170gr. bullet, now I know that bullet wasn't moving very fast when it hit, no, you don't need to push it that fast, but if you can, go for it, you'll need a longer barrel more than likely though, 3.5" more. The load I have will take a deer out past 600yds., If I can shoot it that straight. Jay

Like Crazy Cledus, I have left the 150's and now only shoot 165's in my '06's. Best load in my guns is 57 grains of 4350, CCI large rifle, WW brass, Nosler Partition. Very accurate.

N-204 From 55.0 grains to 59.0 grains
Winchester WLR Primer

Thanks again,
I have always shot mags now I want to shoot this 06 and I am wondering what to expect. Is it the opinion of most 06 shooters that 165 is the better bullet for whitetails??
Old Timer

Old Timer, the 150's are O.K., but 165's are better. 150's will make big holes, especially if you want to drive them over 3000fps. Personally, I think the 165's are a tougher bullet as well as a better performer.

I see you mentioned recoil, sorry can't help you there, but the lighter bullets are a step in the right direction.

Powder: 1)H414 for speed
2)IMR 4895 economy
3)IMR 4350 can't go wrong, but I wouldn't go to a slower powder with a short barrel and light bullets.

My personal preference is the 165-grain bullet in the .30-06. I've never met an '06 that didn't like them.

You've gotten some excellent advice on your 150-grain loads, so I won't venture there, except to say that if your funds are limited (as they are for many of us), stick with what you have. If you wish to purchase one powder for specifically the 150-grain bullet, I'd definitely try Reloder 15, Varget or Vihtavuouri N150 or (the "ultimate" choice) N550.

As for 165-grain loads, you simply can't go wrong with the choice of IMR 4350 described above. In fact, that really is considered by many to be the greatest single load in the .30-06.

I've also had excellent results with 61.5 grains of H4831SC and 50 grains of Varget with good 165 or 168-grain bullets. The load I use for my deer hunting, however, is 62 grains of Reloder 22 with a 165-grain Ballistic Tip in a Winchester case with a WLR primer.

Thanks to all,
You have given me good sound advice and I will try to use it I have some R15 on the shelf so I guess I will be using it with 150 horadays or Nosler part I have been thinking of the new Hornaday bullet sence I will have to buy something, I believe the 165 will be the bullet I will use in the future, thanks again you all sure have came through.
Old Timer

I get half-inch groups and a touch over 3000FPS with 52 gr of IMR-4064 and a 150 gr. Ballistic Tip from a 1903 Springfield sporter. I want to try the new Hornady Accubonds for a tougher bullet.

Old Timer,
Use a full dose of H414 and you will duplicate that "old 4831 powder"...Lots of velocity, nothing faster over my chronograph...and my 06's like that powder...

Fast handling short barreled deer rifles work far better on deer with lighter weight bullets. Recoil is less and you just do not need heavy weight bullets to harvest thin skinned deer. With shots in the 50 to 200 yard range, I would suggest you use the 125 or 130 grain bullet in your short barreled 30-06 hunting rifle.

Senior hunters do not tolerate heavy recoil like they did in their younger years. The short barreled light weight hunting rifle is much kinder to your shoulder with the 125 or 130 grain bullet. With the 22.5" barrel, velocity will be higher and the fact that the closer range shot will most likely be the case, it makes a perfect combination. The 125 or 130 grain 308 diameter bullet placed in the heart lung area of a deer should impart exceptional hydrostatic shock to the animal. The faster burning powder you have on hand should give you the accuracy you need to harvest your deer. Felt recoil is noticed more in bullet weight than powder used in the 30-06 case. IMR-4064, REL-15, Varget, can produce fine accuracy in the 30-06 with light weight bullets. Your rifle will tell you the powder it likes best by the groups it gives you.

IMR-4064 powder has long been noted as an exceptional peformer in the 30-06 round. Accuracy and Shot placement is far more important than the higher velocity the bullet is traveling. The slower moving bullet will release more of it's retained energy inside the game animal. Medium to short range shots produce better results on any game animal when the bullet is traveling slower. High velocity bullets above 3000 FPS tend to disintigrate on impact at medium to close range shots.

Remember when you load your own ammo nothing is cast in stone. You may need to try more than one powder to find the one your rifle likes best. The Minute Of Angle rule of thumb still holds true today with any hunting rifle.

All this information was good stuff. I used up my 50 pound keg of 4831 a long time ago. I think the cost at the time broke down to .87/lb. If you have been using 4831 and it's been acceptable to you as far as performanc than you will not have any problem using Accurate 4350. You still can get this powder at a great price and from what you said that definitly is a factor. Hope this helps. Roger

I've been working my way back down to the original '06's 150 gr. at 2700 FPS. I'm expecting that's just about the maximum velocity I'll be able to get with a compressed load of IMR 7383, the current cheapo surplus powder. (It's now going around $4/lb, not near as cheap as the 4831 once was.) Won't be able to test that hypothesis before this weekend, but I'll post some results. That's about what I've been shooting with the surplus 4895 I've been (and still am) using, anyway. Don't need any more than that for 30-200 yard deer.

For that 3000+ FPS stuff I'll go with my .300 Weatherby and a 200 grain Speer bullet, over a caseful of surplus WC860. That's way excessive for deer, of course.

I have to second 4 BamBam's observation on IMR 3031 for a 150 grain bullet. I tried it in a Browning A Bolt and it gave it's tightest groups with that powder in a 150 grain bullet.

I find that midrange powders seem to have less felt recoil than slow powders. It just seems that their recoil is quicker, but not as harsh as the higher capacity when using slower powders.
Just my observation.

With an '06 there really is no down side to using one.

I've had excellent results with IMR 4064 with 150 gr. bullets in the 30/06. But recently I've tried H380 and gotten good results with it too. If you want to meter your powder instead of weighing it, H380 meters a lot better than IMR 4064.

If you use H380, follow the loading instructions in Hodgdon's loading data. You can get a free copy of their little basic booklet.

I use 50.5g imr 4064 behind 150g Hornady SST my son used it on antelope @ 460yds did a very good job. Velocity is around 2850 also very accurate

NotRicochet:
Where are you buying the surplus powder from?

Thanks
bama7x57

Hi-Tech Ammunition.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by seafire/ B17G:

"I find that midrange powders seem to have less felt recoil than slow powders."
THey do. If done to capacity the slower burning powders exhaust at a higher pressure( Gas expansion curve ) and there usually is more of it.
The rifle impulse is PARTIALLY equal to the powder or gas impulse (recoil). This is the mass of the powder times it's exhaust velosity when gasious. With no muzzle break this might go as high as 10,000 ft./sec. ; greater in shorter barrels. The 10k figure is a ball park # but gives u an idea of the magnitudinal difference in what is taking places. It hurts more.

As others have said they are alot of Good Powders for the ol'06,and to get 3100 fps with a 150 gr would be a "very warm to Hot load".
On the Bullet weight 150 vs 165,I perfer the 150's myself see no need for the 165 on Deer Sized Game.
I use H-414 at 56 grs with different 150 gr Bullets and get 2850 to 3000 Fps depending on the Bullet Used.
The above H-414,IMR-4831,4350,4064 & 3031,Win-760,and RL-19 are very hard to beat in the 3006 with 150gr bullets.

53 gr 4064 and a 150gr partition. Consistantly shoots 1" at 100 yards in my springfield sporter with a 20" barrel. Velocity is 2850fps. Its a pussycat in the light rifle, recoil feels much softer than dads heavier 30-06 with 180's.

To follow up on what I said above, I did manage to just equal the 1906 load with IMR 7383. It's bulky. With vibrational settling I can work 56 grains into a case full to the mouth. Compressing it with a 150 grain bullet, it's fairly tight. Some bullets want to spring back a bit. You need the crimp. (I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Averages 2680 FPS from a 22" Ruger M77. Is this an ideal powder for the .30-06? Of course not! It's inefficient (slow burning and hard to load enough in the case though it burns cleanly), and takes more work than usual to load, but shoots well enough if you don't require high velocities and it's $4/lb.

Posted this elsewhere without reply, so I guess the answer is there are no 165gr RN options open to me. Anyway here's my story. Any suggestions?

Hunt deer with 30-06 and many years ago worked up a great load for my rifle. Rem Case-Win Primer-58.1gr 4350. Voila- great having one load that is super for both Western and PA woods hunting!

And Speer's 165 SP and RN fit the bill. Same point of impact at 100, different jobs depending on hunting situation. So year ago, I bought a small but ample supply of both bullets.

Now my RN supply is getting very low but I can't find them any more. Was told in local shop that Speer stopped making them. Called Speer and it was confirmed, they dropped this bullet, even though they have had many calls over this issue.

See my problem-If I move to 180RN my point of impact will change and the SPs don't have the same down range ballistics with a '06? And 150gr is a bit too light for the energy that I like-these 165's kill very well and the RN especially so at short distances in the PA woods.

So what to do, should I move down to the 150gr? Any recommendations?

Martym - I would go with a 180 gr roundnose, if you were happy with the 165 gr RN. I don't think the point of impact would change that much, especially at woods ranges. You could also go with a 150 gr RN, but i think most of those are designed for .30-30 velocities, not .30-06 speeds.

Thanks for the replies. Also, I guess I just have to "get-over-it" and realize that perfect comb I once had is no more.

A new bullet that has popped up on my list for testing is the 170gr. RN Nosler partition. Does anyone have experience with it? Good expansion and very short woods distances 25ft to 50 yards?

And sorry to take over the thread, but these questions pertain to the 150-165-180 question.

In my 30-06 auto's I use VARGET w/CCI BR-2 primers in Fed Prem Brass. I use VARGET powder @ 47 grains w/ 180 Nosler's with excellent results in my auto's with no feeding and ejection problems. And it seems to burn a little cleaner than IMR 4064/4895.

I am relatively new to the whole reloading thing. I use 165 gr bullets in my 30-06 for everything. (moose, deer and occasionally I shoot the head off a grouse at close range) I have played with both h4350 and h4831sc. I like the 4831 better. Groups are less than an inch in a 35 yr old rifle (post 64 win m70)I use 60 grs and I feel less recoil with 4831 than 4350 or factory. For bullets I hunt with nosler part and shoot at the range speer spitzers. OAL is about .15 longer for the nosler than the speer. they shoot to the same POI at 100 yards If only I could get my sons 270 load as accurate.

First off, if you want to get 3100 FPS from a 150 gr. bullet, use a magnum. I've only done that once using a 30-06 with a 24" barrel with a 1 in 12" twist. The load was hotter'n hell, and would blow primers in a standard 06 barrel with the 1 in 10" twist. JMHO.
You don't need all that velocity for 30 to 200 yard shooting. A 165 gr. bullet at 2550 FPS is more than enough for deer. Not to get off thread, but I did take a mule deer a few years back at 250 yards, laser measured, usinf an 18.5" barreled .308 and the 165 gr. Speer SPFB Hot-core and the deer was facing me. Penetration was almost the full length of the deer, the bullet being stopped against a back leg, breaking it. How much more performance does one need?
My choice for the .308 is obviously the 165 gr. bullet, but in the 30-06, I prefer the 180 gr. Sierra SPFB (I hate boattails.)which at 2600-2700 FPS is more than sufficient for the ranges in question. Even the 180 gr. round nose will shoot flat enough for 200 yard shooting at those velocities. The powder I am getting to like more and more is W-760 (similar to Ray' H-414)for the 30-06, and several other cartridges as well.
I quit using the 150 gr. bullets in the .308 and 30-06 because there was, I felt, too much meat destruction, especially if large bones were struck. I don't see the need for an expensive premium bullet for deer. They ain't armor plated.
Paul B.