I have read all of the past posts on chronographs, and have a question. The shootingchrono is out, I can't afford an ohler. My choices are down to a prochrono, or a pact. I want to use this just for basic velocity readings, no memory, string,averages,preasures are needed. Although I do want to set it up indoors and use it for archery as well as for rifles outside. The prochrono has a light attachment for this purpose. I can't seem to find the minimum speed that the pact will record. Will it register down into the 250 fps range? Also, do they make a light attachment for indoor shooting? And, is the pact to cumbersome for indoor shooting? Which would be the best for my situation? Thanks

Pawn somethin to get the Oehler you'll thank yourself now, and again in 30 years!

Is the Oehler compatable for archery equipment also. Does it have a light attachment or will it work indoors without one? How large is the Oehler? Is it small enough to be set up indoors?

Chadr, I am in the same boat as yourself. I am haveing a hard time spending the money for a oehler even though it's the only answer you get when asking the question on this foram. I don't dout that Oehler is the best but the others must work. For that reason I am going to by a PACT if you look them up on the net you can get their base model for $129.00 shipped to you house with lifetime garentee. A gun dealer near me has had one for yeasr & said it works great. I don't like the Procrony as i don't want the readouts out in front of the bullet. Their is a post on here crony gettong stoped by bullett. Sky screens or cheeper than a new chrony. PACT make lot of things for other componies RCBS scales are made by PACT so that is the way I am going it will be a month befor I order one so if you beat me to it let me know what you decided to do I will do the same if your still looking.Just my thoughts hope I didn't make things more confusing. BossMoss

I have a Pact and have had good service from it.

I don't know about archery velocities but mine does a fine job @ air rifle velocities. (700-800fps)

You can call Shooting Chrony and get a factory rebuild for 49.95, you just gotta wait on it a couple of weeks...

I just bought my shooting partner's interest in our "community chronograph" for 20 dollars... He had bought it for only 50 dollars originally.

If you're really, really into the data that chronographs provide, you might want to save for one of the better ones. But if you're just occasionally curious (I fit this category), an el cheapo will give you a ball park idea of what's going on.

You don't need a chronograph for excellent load development. Check out this site (still under construction) for some load development info that'll get you the best load possible without any velocity data. http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/index.html

Take care, and good luck.

Dan

the "shooting chrony sucks" parade is getting a little tired....

is 99.5% accuracy "good enough" for your load developement? that 15fps (7.5+-) FPS at 3000. one half of one percent?!?! gimme a break... and then show me where anyone else, for less than 5x the price, has 1 sigma better (that's a standard deviation) or 99.9% accuaracy...
http://chrony.ca/ right on the home page is
Oehler's is 16 fps (8+-) with a "proofchanna".,.. read it in their own words
http://www.oehler-research.com/specs.html

The "proofchannal" ONLY alerts (at 3000fps) when the deta between the skyscreens is 125 fps... yep.. like I wouldnt KNOW to discard a 200 fps faster reading in a string...

Yep, you can buy MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better, in an oehler, but WHAT are you buying? is it PII? (pursuit of irrelevant incrementals)

MY complaint about shooting chrony's was relived/answered when I finaly bought one with the remote display and control, which allowed me to reset the system if *I* did not line up the gun correctly. Which is what I think most folks have an issue with, but aren't fessing up.. E1 and E2 are user errors... and the most frequent ones... and if you dont have the remote display, you have to WAIT until a cease fire to clear... and it's VERY frustrating.

for $50 bucks, you can get a reconditioned one (that's been shot more than likely), another 10 you can get a tripod, and you are ready to actually KNOW what your loads are doing (think of it as 1.5# of powder and 2 boxs of BTs to justify the cost)

anyone else even MAKE a 50 dollar chrony, for the average joe? NOPE... And for $120, you can buy a low end pact.. that is a hassle to put up/take down... for 195 (and I have to pay sales tax being a texas to texas thing) I can get the bottom of the line oehler

jeffe

[ 01-19-2003, 18:28: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Chadr, I purchased the Pro Chrono Digital from Competition Electronics and I'm very pleased with it. This unit is lightweight and very quick and easy to set up. This was important to me because I shoot at a public range, so ease and speed of setup was a must. Also The Pro Chrono has a very large shooting area within the screens, much larger than the Shooting Crony. It operates off a 9 volt battery, and can store 99 seperate shot strings. Once the unit is switched off it keeps the data in memory until you wish to retrieve it. I believe it will record down to 29 FPS. It's all I will ever require in a cronograph, and priced at less than a third of an Oehler. Bill T.

I've used a Pact # 1 for a number of years and been very happy with it. It works for archery too.

You can get an Oehler with out the proof screen and the printer (you can up grade later) for 195.00. I went whole hog and bought the 35P with the three skyscreens and printer. I think it is a great deal. I am by no means a rich fellow either. I am a married with child lower enlisted guy in the Armed Forces, and if I can save for it anyone should be able to0.

Chadr, Jeffe seems to have some really good points about the shooting chrony and it seems like you should maybe not rule it out yet.

I have also been in the market for a chronograph. My research has brought me to look real close at the CED Millenium chronograph. I don't hear many people talk about them (probably since CED only started making them a few years ago). This chronograph seems like everything I want in a chronograph. It doesn't have a printer but it has a large memory and can download to a PC and then you can print to your printer that is hooked-up to your computer.

You stated that you want to use it indoors for arrows also. One thing I remember reading about the CED Millenium is that it has infared sensors available as an option. With IR sensors you can shoot in really low light conditions. I think I also read something about when you are shooting arrows that it was a good idea to skyscreens that are at least 4 feet apart.

Here is a link to their website:

www.cedhk.com/show.php/Object29

I have one of the cheapie rebuilt Shooting Chrony models. Cost was $US 49.

It works just fine! There are other brands with more features and larger shooting windows, but all have about the same accuracy.

I was told that the Shooting Chrony would more often fail to record a shot than some other makes of chronograph, but that has not been my experience (the triple detector models excepted: they miss fewer).

I bought mine because I do any statistical analysis of my velocities in my desktop computer with a real statistical analysis program (SAS, if anyone is interested in such arcane matters). I don't want to may extra for a chronograph with the capabilities to do this.

Finally, I subscribe to the theory that *anything* downrange of the muzzle will eventually get shot! The company that makes the Shooting Chrony will rebuild any model that you shoot very cheaply (even chronographs of other companies get the same deal!). See

Shooting Chrony trade-in credits for shot chronographs

Haven't shot mine... yet!

jpb

Jeffe,

The Crony E1 (error 1) and E2 are not shooter errors rather that of the Crony. E1 indicates a failure to read from screen 1, E2 is a failure to read on screen 2... This is what I remember from the manual and had somewhat of a problem with, usually at the wrong time too.

The Oehler always works and the proof channel will show you if screen spacing is off AND erronious readings, which I have yet to have ONE yet.

It will work indoors with their light attachment if light is low and it WILL read with arrows too.

I think people only report their results with the ones they've had experiences with so you guys that ARE having good luck with your Crony models keep stating it too. I just havn't so that's what I'll state. If I recomended the Crony I'd be doing the wrong thing in my mind, so I recomend what works for me, I hope you all keep doing the same too.

Another vote for the CED. The infrared kit will be just what you're looking for vis a vis the indoor work. I got mine here:

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/chronographs.htm

Call Jim Ristow there. He's quite a character and he's forgotten more about accuracy minded shooting than I'll ever know. Plus, check out his tips and articles. Very interesting stuff.

One thing that helped me decide was that Dillon sells the CED. Historically they stand behind what they sell, with a generous replacement policy. Therefore, I don't think they'd be selling stuff that breaks.

I made my choice despite the fact that I didn't have a budget to stick to for my chrony, and I'm completely satisfied.

Roger

I got the CED Millenium too. The Oehlers are a special order here in Sydney, Australia and so cost much more. CED's were available straight away and you could talk to the ditributor who knew a lot about the product. Functionality is great I love the ability to export to my PC then print out results & store in Excel format. The large sized screen is great too.

Having said that though I have had an issue where if the skyscreens get hot I get no readings or false readings (this after 3-4 hours in the sun). This I am trying to resolve with the Australian Distributor. I am not sure whether it is my error in setting up or some warranty issue but I am sure they will stand behind their product.

In using the CED make sure that the screens are in tightly in the rail mountings. If they are not hard (even say 3/8 inch) you get low readings.

Oehler while being the "standard" sure could use a "modernisation". Just not appealing.

One of the common causes of an E1 or and E2 reading on the Shooting Chrony is an inconsiderate fly, going through one screen, without passing through the other.

E1 is a failure of sensor 1 (front) to read a shot, E2 is sensor 2, rear... and yep, a fly can make that for you, but...

The easist way to "correct" either one (after you've reset that shot) is to make durn sure your bullet path is OVER them... when I first got mine, i got this all the time, then, when I figured it out, and made sure I lined up right down the middle, it works every time...

jeffe

I'm thrilled beyond polite description with my ProChrono, for the same reasons Bill advised above. It replaced the Chrony I blasted.

About $100 from any of the major mail-order outfits.

Redial

If any of you get the Crony models, one thing you might pay attention to, as I had problems with with the tripod mount I used is that the lip that folds over on the bottom would only set on the very edge of the mount and if I unfolded it with the detachable mount already screwed on tight the lip would "hit" on the edge instead of slip up on top of it. The result was the screens were not setting exactly flat but held up in the rear about a 1/4" which tips the sensor tward the front, and if the bullet passes over it 6" high it triggers the rear screen even sooner than it should giving a higher reading than normal.

I didn't notice this for a while at first because it was hardly noticable, unless you stood afar off to make sure it was setting parelell to the rifles bore. That is another thing, it will give low readings too if it isn't paralell.

The CED sounds like a good one, fist time I've heard much about it. I like the big display too. I think the Master Cronys with the remote display are a bit more of a pain in the ass to tell you the truth. The integrated display models that Crony sells are quick to use and the readout is easily seen from 10-15' away.

I set the gun up, crosshairs on target, set the crony up at the right hight, set the scope to low power, tip the rifle forward if necessary to see that the screens center lines up with the crosshairs vertical post and the targets center at the same time and adjust if necessary.

Brent has hit on two issues that are important for consistency and accuracy with the Chronos.

1- Make sure the unit is opened all the way each time you use it and verify the lack of interference with a tripod mount plate. You can etch a couple of lines in the sides for quick reference.

2- Make sure the sensor unit is level to the bullet path. I keep a small level in my range box to level my chrono and my field targets.