I have about 100 300RUM and 100 7mmSTW brass. Both sets have been shot 3 times. I was getting ready to anneal but should I anneal then resize or FL Size then Anneal? Found it to be very time consuming.

Tumble the brass, clean the media off the brass, FL size, wipe lube off brass, anneal the brass, then retumble.

Figured it might be easier and the same thing to tumble, clean, anneal, then resize, clean lube off.

I have always removed the primers with a home made knock out pin and nest and annealed prior to sizing. It never entered my mind there was any other way but if there is this old dog would appriciate learning new tricks.

There is no sarcasm here. In the past several years on the computer and specificly this forum I have at least doubled my knowledge in reloading and related topics and I've been doing it for over 48 years. The computer has eliminated seclusion and dependantcy on magazine experts. roger

The rule of thumb is "anneal before sizing up, but after sizing down". This is to prevent neck collapse when turning 375 basic brass into a 375 Weatherby or neck splits when turning 338 Win Mag into 416 Taylor.
In your case I would anneal first. Your necks are likely somewhat brittle. Another cycle through the neck down/pull out cycle would only make them more brittle.

lawndart

Thanks guys, Figured I would get some more life out of these cases. And give it a whirl.

I ALWAYS anneal before sizing for the possibly mistaken belief that the heat might distort the metal slightly. Sizing after would eliminate that possibility. I also feel that the slight working of the annealed brass may help in uniforming the tension on the neck. I usually tumble after sizing when I anneal so as to remove the blue ring from the cases. I anneal after the fourth reload in all instances and I haven't lost a case to split necks in many year following this regimen.

Anneal prior to reworking the case in any way...

For what it's worth, I was just at a web site that had a home made automatic case annealer. It in the reference section on www.castingstuff.com
2Doz

I have never annealed cases, but I am considering starting. Would it be a problem to anneal new unprimed brass? I read that many who posted on this thread wait till the 3rd or 4th reloading before annealing. I am curious about the reasoning behind this practice.

Also, is it wise to anneal my 300 Win Mag cases?

Any experience would be appreciated.

Hey Mike,
New brass is annealed. You can tell that easily with Lapua brass, and cartridges loaded for the military. Commercial brass from US companies is generally polished because people like it that way.
Any standard magnum brass can stand to be annealed at the third loading cycle. Fresh brass in standard magnum calibers is usually from .017" to .029" short of chamber dimensions at the shoulder. They get worked pretty hard during the first firing cycle.
A good way to get started in annealing is to buy the kit from Hornady.
lawndart

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
...I was getting ready to anneal but should I anneal then resize or FL Size then Anneal?

I generally Anneal after the 5th shot, but I've no argument with the folks that choose otherwise.

My rifle cases rarely touch the ground, so after the 5th shot I use a Universal Deprimer to decap them and then Anneal. Shake as much water out as possible and set them in the sun to dry any remaining water out.

The next day I go through the reloading process as if they were simply shot once, but keep track of the firings on the Shell Holders.

quote:

Found it to be very time consuming. ...

Yes, but otherwise we would just be out Partying with a bunch of Wild Women... Huuumm, may have to reduce the Annealing...

quote:

I read that many who posted on this thread wait till the 3rd or 4th reloading before annealing. I am curious about the reasoning behind this practice.

Working of the brass, which is most severe at the neck, results in "work hardening". When brass is cold rolled, the grains of its structure are elongated or drawn out in the direction of rolling. The grain structure itself becomes distorted. As reduction increases or repeats, the metal becomes harder, its elastic properties and tensile strength greater, but ductility decreases. In cartridge brass thise affects neck tension which has an impact on accuracy. As it loses its ductility the necks will split at some point. Annealing will return the elasticity of the necks to enable a more uniform and consistent "grip" on the bullets thereby enhancing accuracy and increasing brass life.

OK, I follow the reasoning. I always assumed new brass was harder than annealing would make them in the shoulder area.

Now, My 300 Win Mag Brass seems to be ready for the bone heap after 4 reloads. So I guess it would be pointless to anneal it. Or am I missing something again?

You said it! You're missing something again.

Anneal and it will be like when you first got it. That's the whole purpose.

quote:

Originally posted by mike_elmer:
...I always assumed new brass was harder than annealing would make them in the shoulder area. ...

Annealing softens the Caseneck. As you shoot the Case, resize it and repeat the process, the Caseneck work hardens, so you Anneal to reduce the hardness.

I have posted this a few times, but here is the low down on annealing:

If you are only reloading factory brass 3 or 4 times, annealing is not necessary. However, if you would like to extend the life of your brass then annealing is necessary to avoid split necks and to retain neck tension. For those of us who shoot wildcat cartridges, you either have invested many hours forming brass or lots of money on expensive proprietary brass. Either way, annealing saves a lot of time and expense.

There is no mystery or magic to annealing. It is not difficult or very time consuming. The benefits are easy to see and annealing does improve bullet release and accuracy - both proven facts.

To properly anneal brass you must raise the temperature of the brass to at least 670 degrees Fahrenheit. Use a propane torch to heat quickly - you do not want the heat to migrate down the case. If this happens, it can soften the case base and web area - something you want to avoid. Some folks recommend that you use a temp stick (like a crayon) or a temp paint to judge the proper temperature. Both are available at your local welding supply house. The paint is easier to apply. While these can help in getting started with annealing, they are not necessary as long as you are not color blind.

I anneal in a low lit room. This makes it easier to judge the color temperature of the brass. As you heat the brass in a flame you will see it take on a shine and then a blue wash color. This is caused by the brass re-crystalizing. Soon thereafter the brass begins to glow a deep, dark red. This is as hot as you want to get the brass. IF the brass turns brighter cherry red, you have over-heated the brass and this can make it too soft to seat bullets or to obtain much neck tension.

There are two tricks to annealing - heat quick and cool quick. This ensures that the heat will not run down the case body. To do this properly use a very hot flame and a tub of water. Rotate the neck of the case in the blue tip of the propane flame until you see the blue wash and the deep red glow, then toss it in the water. For large cases you can hold the base of the brass with your fingers. For smaller cases you should use gloves.

There is a lot of data on annealing and its benefits. A-Square tested the annealing process and documented the improvements gained in accuracy, chamber pressure, and velocity SD. You can find this information in their book - Any Shot You Want. The best way to get started is to practice and experiment on old brass. Over heat a few cases and then use pliers to crush the neck. You will quickly see a noticeable difference in neck strength and you will find that it is possible to get it too hot.

In no time you will become a Zen Master at annealing. There is nothing to it.

Ditto lawndart - anneal before sizing up, but after sizing down.

Always anneal before resizing, as the process does introduce a degree of runout that can be corrected by the sizing die.