I'm new to reloading so I can't always tell fact from fiction. One item of interest to me is Green788s OCW theory. The theory sounds very reasonable to me but another member, Hot Core, claimed it was dangerous for beginning reloaders but didn't give specifics as to why. Is this method truly dangerous or is someone just thowing stones? If so, how???

I can't see OCW is any more or less dangerous than any other method. Green (dan) does tend to favour pretty hot loadings. But he offers straight forward structured methodical approach to finding them.
Some die-hards seem to resent people becoming followers, but we're a growing band!

1894,

You do fire 3 shots of a given charge, then move on to the next level. That is how the round robin works. In the Audette method, you only fire 1 round of each charge then move on as you say.

Nebraska,

The method is no more dangerous than any other method of reloading. You reduce the load 7 to 10% to start with, then stop when you see pressure signs or reach book value. The best thing to do is find the post that Hotcore has mentioned and read it for yourself so you don't get a biased oppinion from one person who may/may not understand the technique.

Then at least, you can decide for yourself if it is for you, or if you want to use a different method.

Turok

Thanks, Turok!

I do need to clarify something here... I actually do suggest shooting only one shot of each charge graduation before moving to the next higher charge, and the next target. Basically, shoot one shot of the initial charge at target one, and move on to target two, and shoot one shot of the next highest charge that target, then move on to target three, and so on...

I'm one who likes to cover my bases. That said, after reading this thread, I put calls in to three respectable sources: IMR Powder, Hodgdon, and Sierra. All three techs agreed that one shot at a given charge weight was enough to discern pressure signs, and that in the odd case that pressure signs were missed, the next highest graduation (only a 1% increase) would not be enough to get you into trouble.

IMR Powder 877-467-3282
Sierra 800-223-8799
Hodgdon 913-362-9455

You see, with the 1% increases, you can't really get into a lot of trouble if you know how to monitor pressure signs. (And if you don't, learn to, or pick another hobby, right? ) The Hodgdon tech even suggested that full 1 grain increments of 4350 in the 30-06 are spaced far enough apart to see pressure signs in plenty of advance of problems.

I will opine that a beginning reloader--a true beginner--may want to play with some starting loads until he's got his wings. The Speer folks suggest as much (and by the way, the Speer manual does not suggest three shots of each graduation for pressure testing either--see "loading data," page 63 of Speer's #12 manual). But someone who know enough about reloading to be approaching maximum loads in any manner should and will be perfectly safe using the OCW method.

There is something to be said, though, about 1894's point of a heating barrel's effects on load performance. If you've got a load that is truly about to blow a primer, you might find that primer will blow under hot temperatures in the field, or (I've heard--not experienced) under very hot bore/chamber conditions. But if you're using such a load, you are likely well over industry pressure standards. My OCW instructions caution not to exceed these published figures. There is a "safety margin" built in above these maximums (check SAMMI specs against the pressure's published by the powder makers, and you'll see, for instance, that generally all published figures for the .243 win are 50,000 or so. But the actual SAMMI specs are noteably higher. (I'm not going to liable myself by mentioning how much higher, look it up) ...

How did you think those factory rounds are getting such incredible velocities? That's the secret, they bump the envelope--ask anyone with an Oehler 43P who has measured modern factory ammo and they'll tell you--it's HOT!

So to close... I unequivocally take exception with allegations that my load development method is unsafe. (Hell, Hotcore now even agrees that it isn't!)

Thanks for the interest,

Dan

One caution I cannot accept is the "NEVER EXCEED THE MAXIMUM LOAD SHOWN IN THE RELOADING MANUAL!!" The reason I question this is that there is often a several-grain difference in "Max" loads for the same bullet in different manuals, and ALL RIFLES are individuals. YOU MAY FIND that maximum in your rifle is significantly BELOW what a given reloading book says, OR, you may find that the max load in your particular rifle will be several grains above what the manual says!! Powders can sometimes vary quite a little between different lots of the same kind of powder. This can change things. And, some manuals only give bullet weights, not brands and designs. For example, the Barnes X bullet MAY (but not necessarily) require a lighter charge to reach maximum allowable pressures than a Sierra of the same weight requires!! This all means that when you change ANYTHING, gun, brand of case, bullet, primer, or buy a new can of powder, you should work up your load all over again, no matter how it performed before you made the change, AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT SOME RELOADING MANUAL SAYS IS A MAXIMUM LOAD!!

Nebraska,
First off, I guess I don't really understand Dan's OCW. I do think that firing one shot will give you an idea as to pressure levels but that is not enough information for my needs. A second concern is the weight increments between loads.
Over time The method I've found that works best for me is somewhat different. I like too study several different manuals for the suggested range of charges. I like to select at least the two or three powders that produce the highest velocities in a barrel near the same length as my rifle. I've found the powders that give the highest velocities is usually the most efficient in that cartridge. I pick a load just over book minimum as the starting point and go to one grain more than the manual max. I then load three rounds at the starting point and go up in half grain increments. All test loads are shot from a bench rest at 100 yard targets. I shoot for the smallest possible group. Each load is checked for pressure indications. All loads are fired over a chronograph. I look for the smallest group with the smallest velocity spread. If I have two loads that give the same size group and the smallest velocity spread, I select the load with the highest velocity. This is the only time velocity enters into the selection. Once I get pressure signs I stop and back up one grain. Middle of the book or high book makes no difference. What my rifle shows as max is the final word. Once I have selected the best three or four loads I duplicate those loads with five rounds, and do some more test firing. This method has never failed to result in good loads. I'll admit this is not the cheapest method in the world, but it gives me what I want in the way of a load. One thing that never cease to amaze me, is how much difference a half a grain of powder can make. Good luck.

Something that I've found helpful in selecting
OCW's is to call the bullet manufacturers such
as RCBS, Sierra, Hornady and Nosler. They all
have 1-800 numbers and very helpful technical
service people glad to provide charge weight
ranges and any other help you might need. If
you can't find what you are looking for in the
manuals, give them a call. I gave up trying to
figure out which powder charges are safe maximums
and started calling the experts. It saves a lot
of time and gives me a better feeling when working
up a load. They want you to buy and use their
components and will even tell you what types of
rifles they used in testing. Takes some of the
guesswork out of load development. I don't think
there's a reloading manual out there yet that
covers all bullet weights/designs and all powder
weight ranges. If there is, I'd like to see it.BLR7