Saeed,

You seem to have a knack of producing real life results on questions we all ask eg should I crimp, should I use a magnum primer etc.

Now that I've grovelled, how about a test on the effect a type of die has on accuracy. The reason I say this is there is so much conflicting theory/views on what is necessary.

I would be interested to know the potential group size in a known accurate load using identical once fired cases on ammunition loaded with

Budget dies - lee collet and full length with Lee seater.

Ordinary - RCBS

Quality ordinary - Redding button dies

Bushing dies and competition seaters.

How about it?

1894,

I do not think we will get any sort of meaningfull results.

I will tell you why I this is the case.

I have a bench rest rifle in 6 PPC. This gun will shoot incredible groups here in our tunnel. The sort of groups we argue about here while measuring - they are in the 0.04 - 0.02 range for 5 shots!

It will not do that all the time, but I think the shortcoming is from us, not the rifle.

I had a few cases that have become rejects. Some have lost thier "spring" to hold the bullet in the neck, some have got enlarged primer pockets and so on.

WE got s et of cases which were just fire formed in that rifle, and shot a few groups with them. We then loaded the rejects and shot them. Doing all sorts of silly things as we were seating the bullets by hand. We seated one round way out, so the bullet will get pushed back as the round is being chambered.

We seated the rest of them at varying degrees down the neck.

We fired these, and the group we got was just as good as from the brass that have just been fire formed.

I spoke to a friend in the USA who is a very good BR shooter. And aparently he tried this and got exactly the same results.

We mixed some good brass and some reject brass, and shot them together. Again, the results were not what we had expected.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

sorry--I just had to "bump" this!!

Uh-oh.

Saeed, you just rained on the parades of people need to feel that their obsession with microscopic details is justified in results.

Now, on to the next test.....

Find a load that works well, and see how much difference it makes to change the powder charge by .01 grain.

Rick.

Well, it just so happens . . .

I just went through such a test. Not entirely on purpose, however, it was a valid test just the same.

The load is a .32 H&R magnum in a T/C with a 10" barrel. Titegroup powder, cast .32 cal. lead SWCFB 100 gr. bullet. Virgin brass sized in the decapping die. Die-crimped bullet done in the seating process (Lee die). Distance was 25 meters using a pistol rest and scope. Outdoors, Cleveland weather in January, ~30 deg. F., mild wind.

First round of shots was with 2.9 gr. of Titegroup. Best result: 1.2" group.

Second round of shots was with 3.1 gr. of Titegroup. Best results: 1" group.

Third round of shots was with 3.4 gr. of Titegroup. Best results: 1" group.

All loads had the same: COL, crimp, primer, brass & bullet. The only variable was the charge.

Cases and primers (after firing) showed zero signs of being hot or exhibiting any excessive pressure conditions. All primers looked virtually identical post-fire. There was a noticeable change in the report between the 2.9 gr. and 3.4 gr. load, virtually none between the 2.9 and 3.1.

Million dollar question: Wouldn't one postulate that a 10% change in charge (in such a small load especially) would 1) show pressure differences and 2) effect the group size?

BTW: The reason this wasn't a planned test? It took SEVERAL attempts to get my Lee Automeasure to get close to a 3.0 gr. charge. Had to modify the disk chamber with homemade inserts to get close to the desired 3.0 gr, and I decided to make the cartridges with the different charges to see the effect on accuracy.

May your shots always find the metal,
Dino

Granted it may not be possible to work this out but there was a reason to it.

I've exclusively used Lee dies for 243, 6.5x55, 7x57 and 9.3x62 and with case mouth chamfering, individualy weighed charges but not much else have got under .5moa in all but the 9.3 which is a true inch rifle.

Now I have a 222rem I want to go a step or two further with say consistant .3moa. Seeing as I never worked up a load in increments for accuracy etc with the others a large part of me wondered if I could do for �30 what I will spend �115 doing with Redding button dies. (Redding dies cost us the same as you but in pounds sterling)I suppose the only answer is to try it myself.

Personaly I don't give a toss if the bullets lean like the Tower of Pisa (not much now) as long as I can kill small things at ranges of up to 250m.