Being new to reloading I am still developing a load for my .300 win. I have found that it seems to like the 200 gr Accubond. I have shot sub MOA groups with this using RL 22. However I am concerned with the temp. sensitivity of RL 22. I was going to do the OCW and or a Ladder Test with the Accubonds. I am looking for suggestions on powder other than RL 22. I have read that H4831 is good and H 1000. All comments welcome. Thanks

Just ran a ladder test for the 300 win mag and H1000. To me the OCW method is like reading tea leaves but here are the pics





So I calculate that the load would be 78.5 gr which would give a velocity of about 2900 fps.

Since then I also ran a ladder with RL22. I haven't uploaded the pics yet but got less definitive results with no significant POI change and fairly tight groups from 72.5 to 73.4 grains. That velocity went from 2925 fps to 2950 fps. At 74 grains the groups opened up and started moving up (recoil?). The best accuracy was at 72.5 gr so I may bracket that load and try again.

Hope this helps.

It ought to get HC involved anyway, I gave him enough quotes in the above post to have some fun.

Thanks for posting the pics, Woods. Nice shooting, by the way.

I fail to see a statistically significant difference in either POI or group size. Not picking on you, the same could be said of most ladder tests.

Thanks I think I will try some H 1000. I am trying to get a load worked up for this fall's hunt. I guess I can always fall back to the 200 gr Accubond/RL 22 load. There never seems to be enough time to get to the range.

Hi Chain

Try reloader 19 if you are having issues with R22. Max load 73gn
See http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/dannewberrysopti...ightloaddevelopment/
You can join their forum and I'm sure Dan will interpret the best OCW for you.
The trick is ignoring the group size and concentrating on the centre of the group. So transcribe all the group centres onto a target and the reults will be obvious.
It works every time for me, but not necessarily everyone.

Mark

quote:

It ought to get HC involved anyway, I gave him enough quotes in the above post to have some fun.

Hey Woods, Just noticed the thread. I've got no problem at all with folks wasting "their time" with the full-of-beans ocw fiasco - doesn't bother "my" groups at all.

Must make you wonder just how good your groups could be if you had only used the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method though.

If you guys ever have the opportunity to shoot against me to see who buys the BBQ for supper, - PLEASE - use the ocw fiasco to develop your loads.

I'd try H4831SC. I use and have had good results with RL22 in the 300 Win, however I'm not happy with the lot to lot inconsistency. I can't say that I have had trouble with temperature sensitivity. IMR 7828SSC might be worth a try too.

What you have is a perfect candidate for Accurate data 86.I kid U not! roger

Hi Hot Core

I like my BBQ'd venison rare if your doing the buying.
If it shoots .4 MOA consistently in an open field with a factory sporter (not varmint) rifle at 110yds I'm happy with that.

Regards

Mark

I have had very good luck with the 200 grain Accubond seated on top of a healthy dose of H1000. Average velocity for 10 shots was 3,038 and it was right at an inch for all ten shots at 100 yards.

I have taken two elk, a mule deer, and an antelope with the load. None of them complained.

Hey Mark, Well, I can see why you would be happy with results in the 4s. Do like BBQed Venison myself, but prefer Venison in the crock pot and Hog on the BBQ Rack.
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Must be sad to know your rifle could shoot much MUCH better if you'd only used the never improved upon Creighton Audette Method.

Cheer Hot Core
Just got back in from another eveing of chasing Bambi's dad around. THe wheat is still too high.

I'am going to develope a new load for my 7X64 Brenneke so I'll give the Creighton Audette Method another serious go using 139gn Hornady Interbonds.
I'll dry cure some venison just in case.

Why do you think its so good as just one minor error really knackers the whole thing up?

Regards

Mark

The thing is that if you want to find a load for a new caliber or gun then neither the OCW or Audette will be all that useful, IMO. You still need to pick a bullet, powder, case and primer before you can test with either one.

Say if you never had a 300 win mag, got one and wanted to find a load. Never having loaded for one, you might choose IMR4350 and a 180 gr Nosler Partition. You run a ladder sequence and find out the gun shoots best at around 68.5 grains for a group of 1 1/8" at 3000 fps.

What have you accomplished? Is this the best load for your gun? Probably not. With other extensive testing and many loads later you find out that gun will shoot the 200 gr Accubond with 72.5 gr RL22 into 1/2" and get 2925 fps.

So you still need to do 90% of the work by finding the right bullet and powder before you can fine tune with a ladder, either OCW or Audette!

Right?

quote:

Why do you think its so good as just one minor error really knackers the whole thing up?

Hey Mark, There is some truth in what you are saying. The idea is to have the "spread" in the individual Loads close enough together so you see the clusters forming, even if one shot gets tossed wide because of a flinch.

The Audette concept allows you to get a wider spread of Loads on-target - quicker - than the rookeyized ocw fiasco. While a person is monkeying around with the Round Robin , the range conditions just keep changing. And out at 300yds(where you should be doing the Testing), it can fake a person out by spreading the very best Load, or tightening a normally poor Load.

If however a person is only going to develop loads at 100yds, shooting 3-shot groups is probably as good a method as any but leave the Round Robin ignorance for the rookies. Just more and more movement in the shooting position creates the opportunity for the shot-to-shot rifle holding consistency to become inconsistent.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

So you still need to do 90% of the work by finding the right bullet and powder before you can fine tune with a ladder, either OCW or Audette!

Right?

Hey Woods, I do believe you are 100% correct about the preliminary decision selection on which Primer, Powder, Bullet combination to use during the initial stages of Load Development. Generally there are a few Powders which all look pretty good and the only way to know which one works the best in a specific rifle with a specific Bullet is to try them out.

Of course with the never improved upon Creighton Audette Method, you can Test 3 - Powder/Bullet combos using the same amount of components as 1 ocw fiasco. And since you will be shooting the individual Load Spreads in a closer time frame(no stinkin Round Robin ), then the Range conditions change less on you.

Then you got to:

quote:

before you can fine tune with a ladder, either OCW or Audette!

And here, with that slight modification to your original post, you are 100% correct - again! But of course you really knew that all along.

Ask Bounty Hunter if you need some help.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

Of course with the never improved upon Creighton Audette Method, you can Test 3 - Powder/Bullet combos using the same amount of components as 1 ocw fiasco.

Yeah but with Audette you don't know how the selected powder charge is going to group until you load some and go back to the range later. With OCW you can at least know how tight a load will group. So you have to load and retest with the Audette at the selected powder charge. Load more now or load more later.

quote:

And since you will be shooting the individual Load Spreads in a closer time frame(no stinkin Round Robin ), then the Range conditions change less on you.

Grasping at straws a little here, HC. How much difference in POI do you think an hour's worth of weather change is going to make, unless a front blows through of course. If it's 80 degrees or 90 degrees, the wind is blowing 10 mph or 15 mph. A gust of wind could come up between shots with the Audette ladder also.

quote:

Ask Bounty Hunter if you need some help.

I think he's developed a gambling problem and is doing his part to help restore the economy of Louisiana and can't afford to reload anymore.

quote:

I think he's developed a gambling problem and is doing his part to help restore the economy of Louisiana and can't afford to reload anymore.

Just spoke to a guy I used to work for who lives in Long Beach, MS. He was telling me the Casinos are building new huge ones wide open. Apparently they seem to have a bunch of money available to do so, maybe some of Bounty Hunters.

I asked him "where" the thousands of Casino employees would be living once they got the new Casinos built. He thought a minute and said he had no idea. Maybe Bounty Hunter could rent some sleeping space in the back of his truck.
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Don't really believe I'm grasping at straws about the ocwf(fiasco added), but if you are happy with it, that is what really counts.

remember a big coon walks just before dawn

What's that? An old cajun confucious saying?



Looks like you and HC are a lot alike

"If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull#@&*!"

quote:

remember a big coon walks just before dawn

Neighbor had one do just that yesterday - right into the old Hav-A-Hart(or is it Have-A-Heart?).

I had the trap trying to keep Rabbits out of the Tomatoes, Cukes, Squash and Peppers. They would eat directly beside it when it was baited with fresh lettuce and apple cores. I accused him of Training the Rabbits to eat on my side of the highway.

Took the trap over to his garden with the following results baiting with dog food and table scraps:
Night 1. HUGE kitty. Came out of the trap like a Posiedon Missle breaking the surface.
Night 2. Possum.
Night 3. Possum Deux(for the cajuns).
Night 4. Coon.
Night 5. Yet to be determined.

If he gets a Skunk, it will be difficult for me to hold a straight face around him.
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By the way, he is using the only "ocw" method worthy of a title - "Old Cage(made of) Wire" Method.

yeah some of us aren't stuck on some of those dull everyday powders we'll step out and try something different. if i was worried about losing a little at the crap table i would have kept working yeah i think i'll go to the range in the morning. tell me how work is tomorrow

quote:

tell me how work is tomorrow

For us old folks it is simply wonderful. Helps keep us spry and wirey.

Once the dew is gone, time to mow the front 40, back 40, and all the other 40s. Just got the Tea made and it is cooling.

Sure would like to be at the Range though.
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Does the Dice Tossing help strengthen the Trigger Finger muscles?