I was loading today on my dillion 550 for my 40 SW ruger pc4 carbine .I tried Montana gold 155 gr hp.I loaded them with pistol primers I usually use rifke primers in that carbine .I first used 800x powder a moderate load .I shot it and no bullet went in the ground .It stuck about 4 inches in the bore .It took forever to get it out .I changed to p38 powder to see if it was the powder it only went 2 inches in the bore .I tried just a primer it shot fine .I measured the bullets they were .40 .It has to be that bullet coating .I dang bought 6 bags of them wish I had only gotten one .Has anyone ever had this happen .I am glad I only loaded one each time .I thought it might have been because I didn't use small rifle primers in this carbine .

it isn't the primers.
it isn't the bullets.
if you want to see the problem load a bullet with just a primer.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
it isn't the primers.
it isn't the bullets.
if you want to see the problem load a bullet with just a primer.

Ammo loaded with only primer will not always exit the barrel!

Your load is too light.

Increase the powder charge.

I had the right below the maximum loads .It has to be the coating on these bullets .They only went about 2 inches down the bore .I had a problem once with West Coast bullets that were coated in my 41 mag .They did all kinds of weird stuff out of my pistol .

This is the first I have ever heard this.

Only time bullets get stuck in the barrel in my experience in lack of enough powder.

quote:

I had the right below the maximum loads

there's your problem.

coated bullets need to be about 5% above regular bullets for the same pressure and velocity.

dropping below minimum and adding the coating is going much too far the wrong direction.

doing it with the wrong powder is gonna give you a stuck bullet and a face full of gun parts.

It would really be interesting to know what is actually happening here.

Bullet coating are supposed to make bullets more slick, not stock??!!

Too slick; and the bullets go down the barrel too easily for the powder to burn. Plus, measure the OD and tell us; could be they are too small.
Just an idea because I know nothing about those bullets, that powder, or that rifle.

First off we need all the correct data. We need to know the maximum load in grains of powder for the two powders mentioned. Then we need to know the exact diameter of the bullet to the third place on the mic like .400 or .401 etc.

I'm not buying the bullet is too small. Take a 30-30 and fire it in a 32 Special and see what happens...it comes out very vigorously.

Give us the data I asked along with your groove diameter in your carbine if you know how and can do it.

In the two loads that lodged bullets in the barrel, was the powder burned or was there unburnt powder left in the barrel?

One way this kind of thing can happen is if there is not enough crimp or neck tension holding the bullet in the case. The round is put in the gun and fired, but the force of the primer blows the bullet out of the case before the powder can burn. I have had this happen to me with some .45 Colt rounds loaded with 225 gr jacketed bullets and lots of 296 powder, but very little crimp. The obviously unburnt powder had sorta fused into a solid pellet and the hard jacketed bullet stuck in the forcing cone of the revolver barrel tying up the gun, thank goodness. A soft slippery bullet would have lodged further into the barrel and I might have ruined the gun on the following shot.

I suspect there was just not enough 'grip' on those short and slippery 155 gr bullets to hold them in the case until the powder ignited fully.

I looked those bullets up on Montana's website and they are listed as a jacketed hollow point. Don't say anything about copper coated or powder coated, NOT that the op said they were. They are just another normal jacketed bullet with the normal jacket alloy. I don't believe the bullet to be the problem.

Was the powder in the case?

Are you finding unburned powder anywhere?

I can’t get a bullet out of a pistol with just the primer. If you are not finding unburned powder, you either are putting almost none in, or there isn’t any there.

If you have unburned powder then it could be contaminated powder or not igniting for some reason.

Soot by itself can be primer or poor powder burn, but the bullet should exit if the powder burns or else you should see all kinds of fire/smoke coming out the action.

To me, the most likely issue is trouble with powder drops.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Was the powder in the case?

Are you finding unburned powder anywhere?

I can’t get a bullet out of a pistol with just the primer. If you are not finding unburned powder, you either are putting almost none in, or there isn’t any there.

If you have unburned powder then it could be contaminated powder or not igniting for some reason.

Soot by itself can be primer or poor powder burn, but the bullet should exit if the powder burns or else you should see all kinds of fire/smoke coming out the action.

To me, the most likely issue is trouble with powder drops.

A friend sent me a double rifle - in 375H&H - with a bullet stuck in the barrel.

It was a Speer 235 grain custom loaded by a manufacturer in Austria.

I put some powder in a primed case and fired fired it, getting the bullet out.

I asked him to send me all his custom made ammo.

For this one it was easy, as all I had to do is weigh them.

Anything weighing 50 grains or more less was the culprit.

Sure enough, several rounds had no powder!!

I pulled the bullets out and reloaded them for him.

He never bought any more ammo from that guy!

Mike:

Check that powder is flowing into the case and
not jammed up in the feeder tube. That happens
sometimes with progressive presses.

I'm betting on no or very little powder getting
into the case.

IF you have loaded ammo from the same session.
Pull the bullets and make sure they're charged.

George

quote:

I'm betting on no or very little powder getting
into the case.

IF you have loaded ammo from the same session.
Pull the bullets and make sure they're charged.

This

It burned all the powder there was bone left .The first load with 800x powder went about three inches down the barrel .The second load with p38 powder only went about two inches .I had to take a steel muzzleloader loading rod to knock the out and it was very hard to get them of .They were .400 diameter .The guy took them back at the shop I bought them from .The only difference I used small pistol primers federal instead of small rifle primers .I only do this in this carbine not for pistol loads . They had normal rifling marks but were stuck very hard in the bore .I had problems with West Coast coated bulkets in my 41 mag .I will only buy brand name bullets just have to wait a long time to get them now .

There is no way in hell, bullet coatings will get the bullet stuck in a barrel.

Over size bullets might.

No charge might.

Ineffective powder might
But with a proper charge, and right size bullet, it won't

Montana Gold Bullets are convention cup and core jacketed bullets. They are not copper plated bullets nor are they powder coated bullets. You still haven't mentioned what your load it, grains of powder that is. There is no possible way that is going to happen with a proper load from a reloading manual. The small pistol primer or small rifle primers isn't going to make much a difference, but the 40 S&W is a high pressure round and if a load is near max a small rifle primer may push it over the limits. It doesn't matter if you fire the small rifle primed ones in a carbine as no matter the type of firearm it's still designed around the 40 S&W SAAMI specs. Take 9mm submachine gun ammo. It was designed for submachine guns only and yes there are some pistols that can handle it, but most will eventually meet their end.

I agree with the poster that feels you didn't get full powder charges.

Just not going to happen.

Here are the bullets he was loading from Montana Gold Bullets:

http://montanagoldbullet.com/40cal-10mm/

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:

quote:

I had the right below the maximum loads

there's your problem.

coated bullets need to be about 5% above regular bullets for the same pressure and velocity.

dropping below minimum and adding the coating is going much too far the wrong direction.

doing it with the wrong powder is gonna give you a stuck bullet and a face full of gun parts.

That is absolutely wrong, at least as far as my .40 S&W pistol loads go.

My polymer coated lead bullets (SNS casting) chrono the same as jacketed bullets with .2 grains less powder (4.8 vs 5.0 grains). I shoot about 60K of them a year.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:

quote:

I had the right below the maximum loads

there's your problem.

coated bullets need to be about 5% above regular bullets for the same pressure and velocity.

dropping below minimum and adding the coating is going much too far the wrong direction.

doing it with the wrong powder is gonna give you a stuck bullet and a face full of gun parts.

That is absolutely wrong, at least as far as my .40 S&W pistol loads go.

My polymer coated lead bullets (SNS casting) chrono the same as jacketed bullets with .2 grains less powder (4.8 vs 5.0 grains). I shoot about 60K of them a year.

Yup polymer coated bullets have less friction!

just like the moly and Ti coated ones.
the lower friction allows the bullet to slide easier.
it also lowers the engraving pressure and the overall pressure of the load.

if you work up from the bottom like you should you won't notice anything.

if you compare any of them directly to the same bullet without the coating you'll see the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
just like the moly and Ti coated ones.
the lower friction allows the bullet to slide easier.
it also lowers the engraving pressure and the overall pressure of the load.

if you work up from the bottom like you should you won't notice anything.

if you compare any of them directly to the same bullet without the coating you'll see the difference.

He's got something else going that has nothing to do with the bullets.

I guess it was bad federal small pistol primers .There was no unburnt powder .I usually use small rifle primers that was the only difference .I shot my 200 grain loads with small rifle primers and 800 x powder no problem .

there it is again.

NO unburnt powder? Because there wasn't any
in the case to begin with. Not the primers fault.

George

quote:

I first used 800x powder a moderate load

This is your problem

I gave up using 800x because I could never get it to throw a consistent charge.